You can listen to the podcast and read the show notes here.
In this episode, I talked with Kundan Chhabra.
Michael Light: Well how do you use intuition in your business?
Kundan Chhabra: There are two things I do. One is body awareness, where I think about a vision that I have, actually what I want do to and I connect to my body and see how my body feels about it. That's pretty much how I use my intuition for everything … even what food I want to eat for example, if I am not sure, where I connect to my body and if there is no response that means I don't actually want it. Its like a loop of programming in my head that tells me I should want it and, if there is a response and I feel good and I feel specifically if I feel my core desire of feelings in my body than, I really do want it and its the right thing for me.
Now sometimes occasionally, I might even have a negative feeling, and that is an opportunity to explore further as to why I might be … There might be a sub conscious limiting belief going or there might be an actual thing in reality, in physical reality that might be not good for me and I need to explore. Normally, its just either there is a good feeling or there is no feelings. So that's one way.
Another way is, I stated in one of my comments, a new way that I have been doing is to think about an action or a vision, and ask myself if this action would create beautiful dreams tonight. If it doesn't happen, it probably isn't the right action. Yeah, so that's pretty much it actually.
Michael Light: So tell me more about, you said that when you want to manifest something you ask or create beautiful dreams. Tell me more about that approach?
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah, I am still diving into that, because I know my dreams lead to beautiful thoughts, so I am trying to create a way to go in the other direction. There is a novel called ‘The Kin of Ata are Waiting for You' by Dorothy Bryant. Have you read it?
Michael Light: I haven't, no.
Kundan Chhabra: It's amazing, it is a fictional story, it's a novel but there is so much to learn from that. It's about an alternative human society and they live their lives such that their dreams more and more beautiful, and their dreams in turn nourish their daily lives, creating this symbolic feedback loop between their dreams and their daily lives … For the last 21 months of my life, especially the last 9 months that's how I've been living, at least for one way, so thank you being a bridge the other way. So for example, about 21 months ago … as I was saying, I had …
This is how my dating and relationships coaching business course was started because of a dream. Last year I had a dream, I was talking to a woman … the reality happened … first I was talking to this woman that I was seeing and before we got off the phone she said “I will dream about you tonight, okay” and then that very night, I had what was at that time the most powerful dream of my life. She was in the dream but every one women in my life was in the dream. It was …. I saw this big giant infinite open book way of light and above this book was a circle where people were flying and floating and standing above the book and sending rays of light into the book. At first, I was observing this and I knew immediately that the book represented my life purpose and all my projects and then I merged with the book and I became the book. That is when I started feeling the most amazing joy, ectasy, arousal, turn on, beauty, wonder. Everything good and this feeling of total alignment with my destiny. This energy of aliveness.
I woke up directly from the dream at 3 or 4 in the morning and even though it was so early in the morning, I was totally energized from that dream even in my waking physical body. So that when it had an actual affect on my waking life and my waking physical body as well. I knew immediately what to do, so I got to my lap top immediately, as soon as I woke up … I opened my lap top, I created a website that I had been struggling to create for a week, and I created it in one hour. I recorded the guided meditations for that site in an hour. In one take everything was done in an hour and it was amazing.
So, two months later I told a friend of mine about this dream and about this whole story, and she was so moved and inspired by this story that she asked me to teach a class at her house. At first it was going to be a private class just for my private clients, but then I opened it up to Meetup.com because she said, “I am only going to do this if there is at least five people”. So I wanted to make sure of that … Everything was based on inspiration and I decided that the topic was going to be on the sexual energy secret for success, which almost nobody talks about and it was going to be based on this dream and this story. The long story short, I guy who came to that workshop he became my first hired client. Even though he met me only once, he ended up paying me like $2,000 in full, in advance after meeting me only once. That's a lot, that showed a lot of trust in me that he had. It shows the power of the dream, the flow and all the events that led to it. After that, I started teaching more workshops like that and getting more and more hired clients.
That is an example how a dream has influenced my life. Lately my dreams have been guiding me to create guided meditations based on the dreams. So instead of just talking to you about dreams like I am doing right now, the idea is that I guide you into the dream, so that you have a direct experience of it, as your own dream. I have done that too, I have created these videos. I am also suppose to create an online course based on that which I have not done that yet.
Michael Light: You need to dream about it!
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah, I have had many dreams. I have enough to create an entire course. I suppose we did a seven day course and I am having more and more dreams like pretty much every two weeks, it is beautiful, amazing dreams.
Then when I read ‘The Kin of Ata are Waiting for You', which by the way was recommended by a woman Elle Cooner who has a similar story to me …
Michael Light: So tell me the name of this book again? It's called?
Kundan Chhabra: The King of Ata
Michael Light: The Kin of Ata are Waiting for You.
Kundan Chhabra: So when I read that book, especially the ending which is so badass. It felt like total validation and confirmation of my path.
In fact, I recently accidentally became the leader of a Facebook group, 24 hours after I joined the group, the leader of the group decided to step down and let me be the admin of that group, which was another confirmation for me.
Michael Light: It is magical.
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah, it is totally magical. Now I am really working on …. so the dreams are guiding me, but how do I go the other way to create a bridge … Its a question I am still exploring. I've been asking myself more and more often what …. sometimes in the morning, I would ask “what actions should I take that will create a beautiful dream tonight”, and I would get an answer.
Usually, it is like when I spend more time outdoors and I am in nature a lot and I am creating something creative. That is usually when I have beautiful dreams. Lately I have been asking too … “which relationships with which woman would help induce more beautiful dreams”, that is what I have been looking at too. So it is still an exploration for me when it comes to that, it is just one of those questions … there is a quote by Rainer Maria Rilke, she says “Be patient with the questions”. I don't know if you are you familiar with that quote?
Michael Light: No. What do you think that means?
Kundan Chhabra: Let me look it up … it is so beautiful … I have written an entire article on the importance of asking good questions, because that has been my path too.
Michael Light: Questions are the key to consciousness.
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah. Totally, its like … I am trying to … like Tony Robbins said “the quality of your life is based on the quality of your questions”. If you ask a question it likes …
This is the quote by Rainer Maria Rilke, she said ““Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves, like locked rooms and like books that are now written in a very foreign tongue. Do not now seek the answers, which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer.”
I have been on this path where I would ask myself a question and explore it for 30 days. Last year, I asked myself the question “what is the best doing that would most enhance my being”? And this year I asked the question … I went deeper then that and asked myself the question “what if the doing that is the same as being and that question that led you to an entirely new business”? … so your uncovering people's greatest gifts which I feel is the emerging of being and doing and I am writing the most important title of my life.
Michael Light: Say that question again, it sounded pretty deep?
Kundan Chhabra: What is the doing that is the same as the being? …
It is a definite way to tap into your intuition is to ask good questions. The question that I am still exploring, I am still trying to live without having a clear answer yet, is that question “how can I live today so that I can have beautiful dreams tonight?”, and the follow up to that would be, “how can I infuse this day with the magic of the powerful beautiful dreams that I have already had?”
The second question I have a better idea of … like being guided to create guided meditations dreams and now I listen to my own guided meditations almost every morning and it feels amazing. It is an amazing way to start the day. So the second question I have had more clarity, the first question is something I am still exploring – “how can I live today, so that I can have a beautiful dreams tonight?”
Michael Light: Well dreaming, doing, being are all related.
Kundan Chhabra: Right, exactly. Totally.
It's like when we are having a dream, even when we are having a bad dream or a sad dream, it is with hyper laugh and we are aware that we are actually closer to our true self in our dreams. It is like we are more in the observer state in the dreams, which is powerful.
Michael Light: Right, less baggage in dreams.
Kundan Chhabra: Right, exactly.
Michael Light: You talked earlier about using your body to hear your intuition.
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah.
Michael Light: Can you give an example where you did that in your business. Your body gave you a message?
Kundan Chhabra: One example would be, when I came up with the pricing to start the … when I had my dating and relationship coaching business, I came up with $2,000 for a package of 10 or 11 sessions, that's my high end price package. At first I thought of 5,000 or 3,000 or 1,000 and I came up with the special number of 2,000 by connecting to my body and seeing that is the best price, and enough time to not listen to my intuition and price it at 3,000 and it said it would never work.
Michael Light: So, just tell people who are new to this so that they can understand. You said different prices out loud and you noticed how your body reacted or, was there some other way you were getting this message?
Kundan Chhabra: Right, I would say … saying it loud is one way, I am more visual so I visualize talking with the client or visualize myself charging that amount and see how my body will respond to that.
Michael Light: So say you said in this case $1,000 which was too low, how would your body respond?
Kundan Chhabra: Now it would … I feel a slight tension in my stomach, in my belly. It is very subtle.
Michael Light: So you need to be in a pretty quiet place to be able to hear these messages?
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah, and the thing about me is … I have trained my intuition to be a shelf of empty mind, I get feelings in my body and [inaudible 00:17:52] listening to intuition and in my case, the body when is the feeling works better for me. … In the past, way back in the past, back in the days when I was depressed and suicidal, I would often hear contradictory voices in my head, that was so annoying. I had to learn how to shut it off. So when it comes to intuition, I train myself to be attune to more into the feelings in my body than to hear any voice. Now for other people, they might hear a voice and start off and that works better for them. But for me, it is the feeling in my body that works fast.
Michael Light: Coming back to this example, when you tried to visualize $3,000 what did you notice, the same thing or something else in your body?
Kundan Chhabra: I get way too excited and ungrounded and there is a fear.
Michael Light: So you felt you were floating out of your body?
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah, kind of.
Michael Light: Then at 2,000 how did that feel for you?
Kundan Chhabra: That feels just right. I feel … I am both visual and kinesthetic … I have [inaudible 00:19:44] where my visual and kinesthetic are combined, they have merged. I not only feel complete in my body I also simultaneously feel expansive and I even see roots coming out of my feet and I feel like lights coming out of my body. It is like concentric circles of light and it feels really good. I feel both grounded and expansive at the same time.
Michael Light: Well that's a great example of hearing your intuition from your body to set a price that works for your business.
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah, right.
Michael Light: If someone was new to that listening to their intuition and they wanted to try and see if their body could give them messages, what would you suggest to help them do that?
Kundan Chhabra: I would suggest first getting some body works sessions with a really good body worker, like a massage therapist but not just any old regular massage therapist. It needs to be right, therapeutic massage. Either that or get some private Feldenkrais session and I can send you the word how it is spelt, its called Feldenkrais. It was invented by a guy named Moshe Feldenkrais, it is a movement modality. It is like the gentler, softer version of rolfing … Rolfing is painful.
Michael Light: It is. I have been rolled.
Kundan Chhabra: Rolfing has ….
Michael Light: It is a more gentle way of adjusting the body.
Kundan Chhabra: The beauty of Feldenkrais is that when you are doing it in a public class, there are also classes at Feldenkrais you do it yourself, it is called active. So it is like yoga but so much slower. When your having a private session with Feldenkrais teacher or practitioner, she does the movement for you, so it is passive. It is not a massage exactly, because she is not massaging you but she is moving your body in ways that I can't even explain it, it is so magical. It is based on the idea of observing your body, not just mentally and having this playful exploration of what could be done differently.
So for example, in my first private session, I had observed that my left leg was tighter than my right. So the Feldenkrais teacher reframed that and said, “well in Feldenkrais this is how we say it, we say that your left leg is optimized with the stability and your right leg is optimized from ability. That is what's actually happening, so we are going to reprogramme that by moving it in certain ways”, and she did, and it is magical.
I highly recommend Feldenkrais to get in touch with your body and treat that body, signs and intuition for somebody new to this work.
Michael Light: Did it take many months to open up your body?
Kundan Chhabra: I had about two private Feldenkrais classes and three months of weekly public classes that I took.
There is also the work of removing your limiting beliefs about yourself and really awakening your mind more to your true self, and awakening to what I call your core desire and feelings. That is a process that I take class too, but Danielle LaPorte has a book called the ‘the Desire Map' and she has her own process too. That is publicly available and you can buy the book.
The idea is that everything we have ever wanted was because [inaudible 00:24:31]. For example, if I want more money I probably don't actually want the money, I want what the money can get me. So I probably want to feel stable, I want to feel secure. Right, I want a bigger house, it's not that I want the bigger house, it is that I want feel more spacious. So once I know that, I don't have to be addicted to the strategy any more or to be attached to it … all these possibilities open up or what is the strategy that I can do right now to feel more spacious? So there are certain movements I can do, certain sounds that I can make to feel more spacious, or I could go to the ocean and spread my arms and feel more spacious. I don't need a bigger house right now.
If you know your cortisol feeling then you get more in touch with your body because when something is feels absolute, how positive yes and your body will respond with your cortisol feeling. Like there is no doubt anymore. So that is another way to get in touch with that.
Michael Light: That's amazing.
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah, right. So for me, lately I've probably been deeper into just my core cortisol feelings of what you working on, later focusing on my root desire, my one root desire. What I feel for me it is usually naked, nourishing, effortless presence where it feels basically great. This all inspiring ever expanding grace that is my root desire.
Michael Light: So you want to experience your godlike self?
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah and totally effortless. Totally present. Usually nourishing each other in that presence, where we don't have to do anything, we can just sit and be with each other and it just draws out. Lately, a lot of my sessions with friends that's how its been more and more where in the past I had all these modalities, that I had invented for clients, now days I don't do any of that any more. I just sit about and feel and be with them and then all this amazing transformations takes place. So I am stepping more and more into that godlike, effortless which is mutually nourishing.
Michael Light: I mean, I think of that as both godlike and childlike. Children have natural light.
Kundan Chhabra: Exactly.
Michael Light: So what would it take to be more godlike or childlike today?
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah. Totally.
Michael Light: And dreamlike, which is the same thing.
Kundan Chhabra: And dreamlike exactly. It is like when I am in that state of being, it is practically reflects my dreams thankfully. Totally.
Michael Light: You have a sense of freedom.
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah. It is so free and spacious and so nourishing.
Michael Light: So how does having this grace state help your business?
Kundan Chhabra: That is a good question. I am stepping more and more into that … I am trying to make my sessions more effortless, so that is the best and biggest work right now. I am doing less work … getting bigger and bigger every time, so I am getting better and better testimonials. My clients keep referring to me as [inaudible 00:29:13] in terms of my business. I am learning how to really infuse it intuitively in all of my business decisions. For example, I use to use Zoom for my video calls with clients but now I have switched to a new … appear.in and it is amazing because it reflects the internal effortlessness that I am stepping into because there are no downloads required, no need to sign up or log in, you just show up you just click on the link and you just show up, and its free.
Michael Light: Tell me what that service is called, I didn't quite catch it?
Kundan Chhabra: Its called appear.in
Michael Light: Appear
Kundan Chhabra: Appear like appearance
Michael Light: Appear, okay.
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah, exactly.
Michael Light: Appear.in
Kundan Chhabra: Dot in.
Michael Light: Cool.
So your finding your business runs with less effort and new ideas come to you more easily, is that what I am understanding?
Kundan Chhabra: As I was saying, your familiar with the online funnels and the funnel model of doing business right?
Michael Light: Yup.
Kundan Chhabra: So, I have never had an online funnel but I have had an offline funnel back when I had the dating and relationship business, which was that I would promote an event on Meetup.com, I would charge $27 for it, and then people would come to the events and at the event, they would have to pay me $49 for an interview with me, to make sure they are a good fit and from the $49, they would become the $2,000 client. It was a pretty basic funnel, it's Meetup, the workshop, the interview and then the session. So only four steps.
As I launched … based on purpose and discovering your greatest gifts and things like that, I am exploring a new way of doing business that really reflects this desire for effortless grace, where I don't … I feel if I have to do a big launch or if I have to have a complicated funnel, I have already tried to convince you in anyway to become my client. I am probably not a good fit for you anyway, so don't buy my set, right.
I want to start calling to that effortless trust and disconnection … doing less sessions with people and what I call ‘touch point marketing', where a set of funnel which is based on touch points … that is why I created the Facebook page Phoenix Awakening, where instead of a funnel it is more like a circle, where there are many talent points where people can touch me and I can touch people, like the Facebook group, my videos, my articles, Facebook live, even my private messaging, my collaborations with people and even this interview. So there are all these touchpoints and if someone is interested, then they get into the discovery column and then they get into your session. That's it just 3 steps and touch points, discovery call and session. So, I am really exploring that to release more and more into that.
Michael Light: What have you noticed in your funnel since you've been applying more grace to your business, has the funnel changed? or How has the funnel work changed or the number of leads you get has increased, or the number of conversions has increased?
Kundan Chhabra: The Facebook group was created as a result of stepping …
Michael Light: A lot of people who are in the business intuition group, they are just getting into this and I think it helps them to understand, does this have a affect on my business, on my sales, on my leads?
Kundan Chhabra: So leads is an interesting question. This is very new even for me and I am really exploring, giving up the funnel model entirely and really embracing this new, what I call the touch point marketing, more circular marketing. Circular … there is a total different paradigm model … so creating that Facebook group two weeks ago is an example of this … that is a third manifestation of me stepping into effortless grace, that is one of the manifestations. So does it have an affect, well yeah in that group. For the first time in my life when I created that group it feels like home. Every time I go into my own group its like the vibration is so high, it is amazing.
I have created many groups in the past that just didn't have the same energy and it would just fizzle out and this one is different.
Michael Light: Well you know, creating anything whether its a Facebook group or marketing piece, it is the intention we put into and the energy we put into it. When I created the Facebook group ‘Business Intuition', I did some check and intention and was clear about what kind of people I wanted in it, and what kind of energy and interaction I wanted in it, because I have seen the same thing in other groups, where they just don't have engagement or they do and then they don't. So that isn't what I wanted to manifest.
Kundan Chhabra: Exactly. That is one of the touch points and I don't know if you use funnel marketing, if you do that might be the beginning of your funnel.
In my case, speaking of magic, I created that group because the day before I created that I didn't even have an idea to create it, but I had …. suddenly I was in this close eyed process at a seminar and I suddenly saw this vision of 1000 Phoenix Awakening and it was so powerful. The next day I had a session with an intuitive business coach, and I told her about this vision, and she asked me, “may be you should create a Facebook group”. “I thought yeah, that is a great idea” and then I was wondering what to call it and she was like, “why don't you just call it Phoenix Awakening”, I was like “oh yeah”. Bingo! So I did. So the vision of the magic was already there, I just had to follow the guidance and intuition that came.
So sometimes intuition comes without us even asking for it. It is our choice whether we follow it or not. That is another great topic to explore because it is not always about we have a problem and we ask a question that we can't answer. Sometimes some reason comes out of the blue that chooses us to be born and we either say yes or not. If we say no, most likely things might end up being difficult for us, but if we say yes it is just like fucking amazing.
Michael Light: I get that, follow your intuition does lead to good things, and sometimes it depends what the question being asked is, when you've got the intuition because sometimes something may be good for your life and for your growth, but it may be not so good for your business in the short term.
Kundan Chhabra: Yes not in the short term. Yeah
Michael Light: So.
Kundan Chhabra: Sometimes it comes out of the blue without us even asking a question, it just comes. Like the vision of 1000 Phoenix Awakening, where did this come from? I had no idea but now it makes total sense.
Michael Light: It usually makes sense in retrospect, but doesn't always make sense at the time.
Kundan Chhabra: Right, Steve Jobs said this beautiful, he said “we cannot connect the dots going forward, we can only connect the dots going backwards”.
Michael Light: I would say it is easier to connect them going backwards. It is possible to connect them going forward, it just requires greater insight or grace or acceptance.
Kundan Chhabra: And trust.
Michael Light: Yeah. Cool.
Kundan Chhabra: Totally.
Michael Light: Anything else you want to share before we wrap this call up today?
Kundan Chhabra: Yeah, I think one thing that could really help with their intuition is stepping more and more into who you really are … this merging kind of being and doing thing that I talk about is your greatest gift, which is based on your greatest longing, that you have learned from other people. It is also your greatest gifts and for example in my case, where I have learned from other people is for them to allow me to be exactly the way that I am, and for them to be in complete awe of me and that is my greatest gift. I allow you to be exactly the way you are and when I allow myself to be that way I am in awe of your greatness and you.
I have also felt trapped my entire life because I didn't feel like I was allowed to just be. Now I notice over and over with clients … there is one client I can recognize her entire life and her greatest gift is recognizing greatness. I have another client whose gift to herself is finding and creating a home for your purpose and she felt homesick her entire life. So, really stepping into this exploration of “what is my greatest longing”, and “what is my greatest gift” and really stepping into your living from your greatest gift more and more. I call it the ‘flow zone' because … Gay Hendricks talks about the ‘flow zone' that we operate it, the zone of confidence, the zone of excellence and the zone of genius, which in his model is the highest zone, but in my model there is a zone that is even higher, that I call the ‘flow zone' and that is your greatest gifts, where being and doing just merges.
So, intuition, dreams, godlike, childlike everything becomes one. So living from that more and more and stepping into fully your intuition itself. Its not a question of asking your intuition for guidance you are your intuition. So that's what I have been stepping more into as well.
Michael Light: So, your not just hearing messages from your higher self you are your higher self?
Kundan Chhabra: Exactly. It is why I say it like the sentient and not the sentient way, it is like letting your higher self descend down into your body and fully embody you and your life and through you the entire world.
Michael Light: So many people don't embody their spirit or they really don't want to be in their body on this planet, which is why we have so much addiction and distraction [crosstalk 00:42:58].
Kundan Chhabra: Totally and even meditation and even healing can become addictions. We are avoiding our pain, but we also avoiding our greatest gifts. Its amazing. For me its like bringing heaven to earth, its not about going to heaven or escaping to heaven. Its like bringing it here.
Michael Light: Or to put it another way, to recognize earth already is heaven and we were just creating an illusion or maya, to make it appear as though it wasn't heaven. Then when you clear that, you can see that every thing is perfect here and you can manifest with grace in your life and business.
Kundan Chhabra: It like uncovering the maya, the clay Buddha, to see the golden Buddha that is already there. So uncovering that is not true, everything that is not true to reveal and bring forth into the world the heaven that is in this persons heart, to really create a movement of people doing that, and being this way and really connecting from the heaven that is already here.
Michael Light: Right, well that is a beautiful thought for the day and a way to create your business. Thanks so much for talking with me today. If people want to connect with you, how can they locate you?
Kundan Chhabra: Right now I do have a website but since I am in this big transition, I would recommend just joining my Facebook group ‘Phoenix Awakening'. Just do a search for ‘Phoenix Awakening' and join the group.
Michael Light: Fabulous. Well thanks so much. Have a great rest of your day.
Kundan Chhabra: You too. Bye.