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Michael Light: Welcome back to the show. I'm here with Raven Dana. She is the Stress Wizard Coach, and she helps people be unapologetically, if I can say that word, their true selves, which is a wonderful thing. I have known her for many years. She helped me be my true self.
We're going to be talking about why intuition in business is so important these days, look at some examples of that, how you can improve your intuition, how to hear the signal from your deep mind, thinking versus reactive behavior, and sensing and resonating behavior. Also, we'll have a little peak at what your handwriting reveals about you, and how you can use handwriting to read what job candidates or clients or anyone else in your life is really like. Welcome, Raven.
Raven Dana: Thank you so much, Michael. It's good to be here with you today.
Michael Light: Business intuition, why is that so important these days?
Raven Dana: I think it's always been important, and even more so now since we have so many businesses that rely on communication where the person is not in front of you. I think that anytime we're dealing with technology or we're on the phone or we're trying to interpret messages, we have to more so than ever pay attention to the signals from our bodies, that [glean 00:01:51] information that bypasses our conscious awareness. That's only natural. We can only think about so many things at once, but that incoming information is what really gives us the right direction to go in.
Michael Light: We might go in the wrong direction if we just listen to our rational mind and our ego?
Raven Dana: Absolutely. I know some people don't even like to use the word ego or they don't want to … They're afraid of demonizing the ego, but it's not even so much worrying about the ego as it is being in our thinking minds, we miss the signals from that part of our awareness that actually makes decisions. The vast majority of our real decision making is made at a very deep level, and we've been taught to override those signals, so we overthink things, or we think we know what somebody else is thinking, or we analyze the data without checking in with our bodies or our gut to say, “Does this feel right to me? Does something seem off here?”
It's critically important to pay attention to those signals. The very best doctors pay attention to those signals. The policemen that I've known. The best detectives pay attention to those signals. For us, in our everyday lives, we miss a lot of information because we're busy thinking rather than paying attention.
Michael Light: Maybe not just thinking ourselves, but listening to other people thinking as well?
Raven Dana: Absolutely. We have that kind of three layers of crazy that we do. Instead of doing what we want to do, in other words, instead of paying attention to our gut and our bodies, we do what we think we should do. As if that's not bad enough, instead of paying attention to what our intuition to what our gut is telling us, then we'll do what other people think we should do. The farthest out level of crazy is when we do what other people … No, when we do what we think other people think we should do. Right? We all do this. We don't even know. We think we know what somebody else thinks that we should do, and then we do that. Often, we are so far removed from what's right for us, those decisions can be a disaster.
Michael Light: It's almost like we, in our business decisions, it's like we could follow … we could be in the kitchen following our nose to the fresh apple pie that's just being baked, or we can think what we should do to navigate there, or we could think what other people might think we should do-
Raven Dana: That's right.
Michael Light: The third level was we think what they think we should do.
Raven Dana: Right, that's right.
Michael Light: Which would lead us totally astray and never get us to eat the apple pie.
Raven Dana: That's right. Will probably never get us to eat at all if we go in that direction. In business, I think it's critically important to gather information, and then set it aside, and be with ourselves, be with the decision in a quite space on the gut level, so we can … If there's something in the background, if something says, “This doesn't feel right,” we don't move forward until we have clarity about what that is.
Conversely, if somebody piles up evidence that we shouldn't this and we shouldn't do that, and here's the risk, there's something in us that's saying, “Move, move, move. Do this, do this, do this.” There's probably information there that we're not consciously aware of that's giving us that either that go ahead signal or that, “Oh no, stop dead in your tracks and explore this,” signal. We have to learn to listen to those.
Michael Light: What are some examples, either from your business life or other businesses you've seen, where people either paid attention to these deep signals and had success, or they totally ignore them and listen to that crazy level different thinking, and didn't get what they wanted?
Raven Dana: I can give you a couple of examples. A number of years ago, I had a client who desperately wanted to quit his job, and he wanted to work with horses, actually, to be like a chiropractor for horses. He was on his way to work, to a job he didn't love, that doing what he didn't especially want to do, and he kept feeling this impulse, like he said, “It was almost like I had a honing signal to turn down this road I've never gone on before.” Instead of ignoring that signal, he did it knowing full well he would probably be maybe 15 or 20 minutes late.
As it turned out, he drove down this road, he drove into this up, up this driveway at the end of the road beside a barn where there was a man who had … What he did was rescue horses. He started a conversation with this man. he actually got a job working with these horses. When he got to work, which ended up being about 45 minutes later, nobody was at work because the power was out in his building. It didn't make a bit of difference.
He listened to himself. He ignored the noise in his head saying, “You have to get to work. What are they going to do?” He ignored it, and he got exactly what he wanted. Now, clearly, that would not have happened had he listened to the [naggy 00:07:16] voice in his head telling him, “What are you thinking? Why do you want to go down that …” you know. That's the kind of thing that we do. That is how subtle the signals can often be. This is impulse. Just this pull. This feeling in your gut or in your heart or in your throat to do something or say something. Right? I had another example.
Michael Light: Mm-hmm.
Raven Dana: I heard this story. This is somebody else's client, a friend's client. This woman, she was going back into the work force after many years of being a stay at home mom. What she wanted to do was write about books. She loved, loved, loved books, and she wanted to get paid to read books. Very long story short, she was kind of depressed and moping around the bookstore, spending like her last … she said, literally, it was about her last 30 bucks or so buying books. She started a conversation with this guy that she did not know that was standing in the next isle on her way down to pay for the books. She just started talking to him. As it turned out, he worked for an out of town newspaper and was looking for, had just had their book reviewer take a year's maternity leave. She was in the process as they spoke of giving birth, and she got hired on the spot.
That's two examples. It's just like these are the kinds of things you think, “Oh, that's really bizarre. Oh, that's really extraordinary, or that …” No. These are really common, everyday occurrences if we let them be, if we pay attention. Again, it might not be that dramatic. I'm giving you the more dramatic ones, but it could be more subtle. I know of people who listen to their intuition who have avoided a bad business deal, or who have listened to their intuition and had taken a risk on something that proved to be really lucrative. It's just about really paying attention, rather than thinking and reacting, right?
Michael Light: Mm-hmm.
Raven Dana: We think we know. We figure something out. We have all the facts laid out, and they add up a certain way. We force ourselves to take actions based on what seems to be the logic at hand, except that there are often many things going on under the surface we are not consciously able to get to. Listening to that secondary signal system, the deeper, quieter, what they call that small voice within. Listening for that, which again, isn't going to show up like a big loud road sign. It's going to show up like an impulse, a feeling, a memory.
I know somebody who … Again, another interesting business story. I know somebody who every time he spoke to his manager at work, he started having this memory of sitting at his grandma's table. He really liked her for that. Somehow that memory was hooked to this manager. After a number of years, like four or five years of working for this company, she said that she was going to leave, leave the company, and he took her out to lunch. They had this conversation, and he finally revealed to her, “Listen, for some reason, every time I talk to you, I have these memories of my grandmother, and the cookies she used to bake, us sitting at the table.” This woman started to laugh and said, “Interesting you say that. I'm leaving to follow my dream and open a bakery. Would you want to manage my business?” He did it.
Michael Light: Wow.
Raven Dana: Right?
Michael Light: Because he listened to those quite signals and spoke to them.
Raven Dana: That's right. That's right. That signal had been there for years and years, and yet, the timing when he finally spoke up was the right timing. It's fascinating. It's absolutely fascinating what happens when we pay attention.
Michael Light: What's an example of-
Raven Dana: [crosstalk 00:11:17] good at it.
Michael Light: What's an example of someone overthinking, being reactive and missing the intuitive message that that could've given them joy and profits?
Raven Dana: I can think of one right off the top of my head. I have a very good friend who she was up for a promotion that she had wanted for a very long time, and she was about to go into the interview for the promotion. She really wanted it. She thought, “I'm going to get this out of it, and that out of it. This is going to be great. I've been in this business a long time, and I deserve this,” and yet, she kept having this feeling like, “I shouldn't do it. I shouldn't take it. I shouldn't even apply for it.” She didn't know why she had it, and she ignored it. She wrote up this big list of why she deserved it and what she was going to do.
Long story short, she got the promotion. Only to find out that it was not for very … Yeah, it gave her title, but it was nothing that she had anticipated. It gave her a change in her hours. It put her schedule almost opposite the hours of her husband. It gave her much more responsibility because there were two people who were leaving the company, she was taking over a lot of their work, and nowhere near the amount of pay to compensate her for that change. She got the position, but she did not listen to her intuition, which told her, “Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it.” That's an example of overthinking.
Michael Light: I think everyone listening probably has an experience where they use their mind a lot. They analyze stuff. It didn't work out, and then later, they probably realized, “Oh yeah. I was getting a dream about this, or I kept having messages about this. I just wish I'd listened.” If we can listen ahead of times, we can avoid all that struggle and stress.
Raven Dana: Exactly, and it's a process. We have to teach ourselves to listen because we've been taught to ignore those signs and signals, those dreams and those impulses. We've been taught to dismiss them, “Oh, it's just a dream. It's only a coincidence.” No, no it's not. It's a meaningful coincidence. You are speaking to the larger body of awareness, and the deeper mind is speaking back to you through your environment. You're picking up signals in response to what your deeper mind is aware of. Of course, if we're skating on the surface, we don't see anything else. All we get is that [litany 00:13:58] of shoulds and shouldn'ts, and what people think we should do, what are they going to think if I don't go for this promotion, what will my family think? Those were all part of her motives for moving ahead with what she knew in her gut was not the right decision.
Michael Light: Earlier, you had a phrase. You said, “Thinking and reacting, versus sensing and …” something else that I'm now forgetting.
Raven Dana: Versus sensing and responding, so again, when we make decisions based on thinking, those decisions are going to often be reactive. In other words, it'll not be based on all of the information. It'll be based on this very small amount of logical lists and facts, and we have to have some kind of coherence between what we're doing and how we're feeling, so we can think and react, or we can notice and respond. The distinction is is that a reaction is kind of a [knee-jerk 00:15:04] way of doing things. It's like when somebody honks their horn behind you and you yell out the window. It's a reaction, right?
Michael Light: Mm-hmm.
Raven Dana: Compared to when somebody honks their horn behind you and you become suddenly aware, and you notice, “Oh, there's a ball rolling across the street that he saw and you didn't see.” You can notice and respond, or you can think and react, right? Thinking is fine. I'm not saying don't use your head. Think all you want, and don't let thinking lead to a reaction that's not including the awareness and the sensory information that's giving your input that sends a broader picture into view. That's what we don't do. We mistake. We make that mistake of dismissing, or not even looking for the deeper body of information.
Michael Light: How do you get that in a little space of time where you can respond instead of react?
Raven Dana: The best way to do that is to learn when something's going on or you need to make a decision to do … and this will seem counterintuitive, but there are two methods that work equally well, and it just depends on how you're wired. The first method is to go with your gut immediately. Don't look at the facts first. Write the decision down first, and then review the facts, right? That's one method.
The other method is after you gather all the facts, go off in silence, literally sleep on it, or literally go meditate, go put the facts aside and check in with the sensations. Just sort of let your mind wander. Gaze out the window. Take a few deep breaths. Check the sensations in your body. Think about the outcome of the thing you want to do, and check the sensations in your body. Is your body feeling open and receptive like, “Yeah, that's a good idea,” or is there some tension, tightening, clenching that's saying, “I don't know. This might not be in our best interest,” or even worse, it might be a complete shut down. You might be feeling, “Oh no, hell no. Don't go down that road,” right? It's like, “Don't turn into that dark alley at two in the morning.”
You can get any number of sensation that give you information to then go back and either uncover more facts, or make your decision based on the combination of facts and what your gut is telling you. It could come in a different. You could sit there daydreaming. In fact, I know somebody who regularly, this is his method, he's a guy who buys and sells big companies. He buys them. He gets them operating really well. He buys sinking companies, fixes them up, and then resells them, right? That's what he does.
His method is gather all the facts, meet the people, then he sits and he stares out the window. Just sort of doodles around. He says he starts having memories. Sometimes he'll have really pleasant memories, memories of great people, or good companies or meetings he's been to, or childhood memories. Sometimes, he starts having scary memories or unpleasant memories, or he'll remember a dream where he like, literally, he remembered a dream where he was running down this dark alley, came to the end, and there was a brick wall.
At that moment, he kind of came out of his [revere 00:18:28]. Even though all the facts on the page said this was going to be a good deal, without thinking about it, he just picked up the phone, he called his contact, and he turned down the deal. A couple of months later, he discovered that that company was in deep, deep trouble. That that company wasn't just like financial trouble rescue, but some of the people in that company had done illegal things. They were up on charges. He was so glad that he didn't take that deal. He had no evidence other than his method, which worked for him, which is to kind of sit in this revere and see what shows up. It works for him really well. The guy is a millionaire many times over.
Michael Light: I've heard George [Soros 00:19:16], who's a billionaire, if he's in a business deal and his back starts aching, he gets out of the business deal. That's one of his signals he uses. Many successful people all are able to listen to these signals, whether they're dreams or thoughts or body sensations.
Raven Dana: Sometimes it's more interesting than that. I know a client, this is again from years ago, a client who made millions of dollars with companies. His whole thing was he was from New York. He had this thing, this sort of running intuition with pigeons, like why pigeons? Who knows why pigeons, but he said he was … This one particular time he was in a high rise in New York City. He was like 23 floors up, and the guy trying to make the deal wanted the answer right then. He never made deals right then. He always says his thing was, “I need 48 hours,” right? He'd wander around the park and see what happens with the pigeons.
He's in the middle of this deal, and they were like, “No. We're going to renege the offer. We're going to take it back if you don't make the decision this afternoon.” He said, “Okay.” He said he walked to the window with his hands behind his back, and at that moment, a pigeon flew into the window, splatted against the window, and plummeted to like 23 feet. He said he just turned and said that, “My answer is no. I decline the deal.” He found out just a couple days after that that there was a lot of shady dealings in the company. They were known for not following through on their deals, for breaking their commitments, and that sort of thing. He was again, very happy he declined the deal.
Michael Light: The pigeon was a kind of a killing itself or hurting itself on the window was symbolic that this deal shouldn't proceed?
Raven Dana: Right. This is going to hurt you, right?
Michael Light: Mm-hmm.
Raven Dana: This will hurt. This will hurt. He saw that and went, “Nope, nope. Not taking it. Sorry. Don't care how good it looks.”
Michael Light: Anytime we see animals or birds or insects doing something unusual, it's good to pay attention and see, “Does this mean something in the decision I'm currently making?”
Raven Dana: Exactly, exactly. Again, I think that people get a little nervy, or a little like, “How can that be? How could that have anything … That's just a coincidence,” but it's not. The number of things that have to align perfectly for you to turn to the window at that moment when that event happens is really pretty astronomical. We are receiving information, volumes of information very, very subtly inside the deep level of our awareness 24 hours a day. So we don't go crazy, and so we can still walk and chew gum at the same time, our brain is designed to filter most of that information out, so we can navigate lives without being bombarded. When we're really deep in the decision making process, that's when we want to get still and open up to that information because it's vitally important to giving us all the pieces of the puzzle. Where the facts will fail us, that signaling system will carry us through to a better conclusion.
Michael Light: I once had the experience, I had a business situation. I went to bed, and I heard a noise in the night in my bedroom. I thought I saw a rat. I get up and go to the toilet, have the bathroom light on, and this rat sticks its head, bold as he please, around the door and just stares at me. Usually rats and mice run away when there are humans around because they're-
Raven Dana: Yeah, yeah.
Michael Light: This rat just kind of, you know. It was like the rats on The Young Ones that just kind of looks at you, and then slowly, it went off. I couldn't find it in the morning. I mean, it had no way to escape. The message I got from it is just be inquisitive and persevere. Rats tend to get through small spaces and they're persistent. I looked it up and there's a book called Animal Speak that you probably come across by Ted Andrews?
Raven Dana: Uh-huh. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Michael Light: There's a list of a list of animals, birds, and insects, things they get up to, and possible interpretations that you can … if you're learning this stuff, you can use it to give you ideas if you're not hearing the message correctly.
Raven Dana: It's a good place to play and even to look up online some of the animals, like totem animals. What's the interpretation? Also, not to be married to the results because some of us have particular relationships with animals that when those animals show up in our lives or we see them repeatedly, especially if it's an area where they don't normally live and we see them repeatedly, we know that meaning to us may be different than anything recorded anywhere. It's both, and it's go ahead and explore, read Ted Andrews, look at some of those other meanings, and still, don't have them written in stone, even follow your gut when it comes to what does that mean for me. That's important to.
Michael Light: Every intuitive signal, there's a meaning that is common. My tummy is hurting, maybe I'm not digesting this issue in my life or something, but there could be a different specific issue just for you today, or the same thing with colors. Sometimes colors come in and people say, “Oh, well, this color means that, and that color means this.” It might do, or it might be today, for you, it means something else. If we ask our deeper self, “Hey, what does this animal, what does this color, what does this dream mean to me right now?” For me, I get whatever the message is.
Raven Dana: Exactly. It's like, “What am I associating with that right now, or how does that color or that dream make me feel? How do I feel?” It's that. It's like, “How does that make me feel?” I know somebody who had a dream about going into a dark basement and people were saying, “Oh no, that's scary. That's spooky. That's going in.” It was in reference, again, in reference to changes he was making in his business. He said, “No. I was … I went down in that basement in the dream feeling like inquisitive, and curious, and like what am I going to find down here?” People were like, “No, no, no. It was dark.” He said, “No. I'm doing it.” He hired these people, and he found out, as he found out of course later that they had all of these literally, he used the word, “Hidden,” talents that never showed up. That didn't show up in their interviews. That weren't on their bios. He was so happy that he hired them.
Michael Light: I love that.
Raven Dana: Very cool stuff.
Michael Light: I know one of the other things that you do, Dana, Raven Dana, not Dana, getting confused with your name here, is you look up people's handwriting. You can see subconscious messages or character traits in that. That sounds really useful for two things immediately. If you're hiring for someone, look at their handwriting, or ask them for a handwriting sample. Secondly, look at your own handwriting and see what's going on subconsciously that's maybe sabotaging your business. Tell us a bit about that and what experiences you've had with that.
Raven Dana: Clinical handwriting analysis is the study of what we call frozen body language. In other words, when you write, the curves and the marks that you put on the page are not just written by your hand, they're written by your brain. They're written in a way where the curves and the movements can be decoded to show us certain things about personality. What we know is that about 110 different personality traits can be represented very reliably in a person's handwriting.
For example, someone who shows up on a job site and they appear to be very kind of quiet, collected, and their resume looks pretty clean. I look at the handwriting and the strokes are … they're pointy, and they're harsh. The handwriting is kind of back written. In other words, they're leaning away to the left instead of to the right, it's heavy, and there's all these. I look at that writing and I say, “This person. This is somebody that feels very deeply. That's angry or resentful, and that can be pushed pretty easily into some sort of outburst.” If this is somebody who's going to work with people, not a great idea. Somebody that's going to sit alone at their computer, okay, not so bad. That's just one small example.
I know, again, a client who hired me to look at a handwriting sample for somebody to be a manager. That was, the handwriting, it was very pointed, very heavy, very back slanted. Somebody who represses emotion, and then when they explode, they really explode. As it turned out, because the rest of the bio, the resume, and his references, all that looked great, he ignored me and he hired the guy. The guy ended up pushing, confronting somebody in the lunch room, and literally, grabbing him by the shirt and pushing him up against the wall. He got fired, and then it was discovered that he had had incidents in the past that were very carefully covered up that nobody ever knew about. That's one small example. [crosstalk 00:29:09]
Michael Light: Can a job candidate change these things in their handwriting if they knew you were going to read it?
Raven Dana: No. I mean, that's the most interesting thing because try as you might, you can't really disguise your handwriting. The closest you can come is if you try printing instead of writing, and even then, some of the characteristics are going to be visible. It is accumulative science. In other words, it's not any one thing. It's the size of the letters, the shape of the letters, the angle, the spacing between words, where the word sits on the line, the height of the letter, how heavy they write. It has many, many, many aspects, so again, try as you might, you're not going to be able to successfully mask handwriting from somebody that knows what to look for, which is great news actually.
Michael Light: Even if they print their letters, that's telling you something else?
Raven Dana: Absolutely. That tells me they don't want things to be seen. That tells me they're being secretive, absolutely. Yup. Although, again, there are people who-
Michael Light: I know when I've done this-
Raven Dana: Go ahead.
Michael Light: When I've done this, we ask them to give us a handwriting sample. If they gave us block letter printing or separate letters that weren't joined up writing, we'd say, “Look, we understand your handwriting's eligible,” because they used to be a pharmacist in a prior life or whatever, “We don't care. Just write the sentences we give you anyway,” because we're not trying to read what they wrote, we're looking at the patterns.
Coming back to that point about can someone pretend and hide their hidden subconscious behavior patterns? It's very similar to body language. It's very hard to cover up body language. If someone's lying and their body language is saying that, if you're good at reading body language, you can see it, and the same way with the handwriting, you can tell.
Raven Dana: It's the same way with the handwriting. You can look at the … even look at the whole page and get what we call the, the overall feel of the handwriting on the page. Even people who know very little or nothing about handwriting can look at a page of writing and get a few things right off the top that's just dead on about that person because there are things that we, again, things that we already know about people, the way they move, and the way they speak that when it's translated into patterns, marks on a page, we see the same thing. Our brains translate the same way.
Our brains are actually magnificent pattern recognition devices. This is really what our minds do best. From the time we're in the womb, we recognize patterns. We do it quickly, unconsciously and automatically. Some of that signal system just comes right through. A person with no training could look at a page of handwriting, notice a few things, and be accurate. It takes some training to get the deeper levels, but you can notice and be accurate. There's value, having said that, in learning a little bit, so that you can decode your own handwriting. There are movements in handwriting that can show you, “Oh, I have a fear of success.”
There's a certain movement in a Y that if it goes below the line and moves down, pointing down, that represents, especially if there's some other characteristics, but that represents some fear of success. This might be a person, who in their experience, gets really close to making these great business deals, and at the eleventh hour, something always happens. Their car breaks down. The client doesn't show up. The banking falls through. It's like, “What is going on there?” There's this fundamental fear of success that's preventing that individual from connecting in the right way from making decisions in a timely fashion. It appears that it's somehow just circumstance, but it's really not. It's really something that's off in that person's desire to be successful, that fear of success, which some people have ingrained very deeply.
That is something that you can work on in your handwriting. You can notice some things about how you speak to people, or your level of clarity, or your fear of success, or your poor self-esteem. You can change those patterns in your writing, which will then change, literally, it will change the way you think. It will shift your self-awareness. You have to practice a lot. You have to get to where the new handwriting is unconscious and automatic just like your old handwriting, right? That makes sense.
It's like a habit. When you move the trash can, you're going to still throw the balled up paper over to the left even though it's on the right side of the room for a number of weeks. The handwriting is like that. You have to practice the new writing enough until it's unconscious and automatic, and then it definitely makes changes occur in your perception, your filtering system, the way you make choices subtly shifts. Things that have been in your way starts to lift. Things that you are afraid of start to get out of your way. It definitely works to our advantage to do that.
In fact, when I studied and became certified in handwriting analysis, one of the things that the leader did was have us write out names, our signatures, which are very significant as to how we position ourselves in the world. He made specific changes for us, to change this here, change this here, open this up here, because just in changing the way you write your name, it changes how you present yourself. Handwriting analysis is a very, very valuable skill to have, not only for yourself, but also, if you are looking to hire people, it's a great thing to do to have their sample analyzed.
Michael Light: I've used that myself. I've also worked on changing my own handwriting. I can attest, it is not … I had to spend weeks to get letters to come out naturally a different way, and then I did notice changes in my behavior. It was very interesting. For people who are a bit skeptical of this, I would just say just imagine you were changing your posture or how you speak and how that affects your brain and how you are in the world.
Even if you just … Even if you don't believe that your handwriting could change your personality, even just practicing it for weeks on end thinking, “Yeah. I'm not going to self-sabotage my success. I'm going to let my success flow,” or whatever the positive version of it is. Just doing that is going to put that affirmation into your thought. I think there's a lot more to it than that. I think it really does represent micro body language that affects our brain and our thought patterns.
Raven Dana: Absolutely, absolutely, and like you said, even if you don't believe it, it doesn't matter. Do it anyway. See what happens. It's an experiment. What do you have to lose? [Write 00:36:14], “A bad habit.” There you go. It doesn't matter how the habit gets re-patterned, it matters that it gets re-patterned, so it's perfectly fine. There are lots of good things on the market for looking at some of those fundamental handwriting tools. Again, I am certainly available to do that for anybody who would like me to look at their writing.
Michael Light: This has been a fascinating conversation, Raven. If people want to find you, either because they want to reduce their stress with your wizard coaching ways, or they want to take a workshop, or they want to get some handwriting analyzed, how would they do that?
Raven Dana: The best way to find me, you can find me on my website, which is www.StressWizardCoaching.com. If you're in the states, you can call me directly at (216) 526-1667, and you can always email me, [email protected]. I would be happy to share information to get you set up or to point you in the right direction if there's something you like that I cannot help you with.
Michael Light: Fabulous, so have a wonderful rest of your day. I really appreciate you sharing how you've used intuition in your business and how you've seen other people use it or not use it, and the results they either got or didn't get. I appreciate you being on the podcast.
Raven Dana: Thank you so much. I appreciate you for inviting me and for our time together today. You have a lovely rest of the week.
