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Speaker 1: This is the Intuitive Leadership Mastery Podcast. What would it take for you to double your profits and half your stress with your intuition? Learn how with your host, Michael Light.
Michael Light: Welcome back to the show. I'm here with Vicki Fitch, and that does rhyme with a certain word that begins with B, but we'll get to that later. She is an author, speaker, international sales consultant. She was the top 10 in direct sales worldwide for 10 years running, which is pretty hard to do because it's a competitive field. She has built and sold four companies, so pretty impressive there.
We're going to be talking about using your intuition in business and in sales. Some of the things we're going to look at are why the words your prospects say can lie and how you can use your intuition to say pick up from their body is what their body is really thinking. And how you can use your intuition to weed out tire kickers and other bad fits prospects. How using your intuition helps in free consult calls, and Vicki is the master at the free consult call. She's going to show you that in a bit. Why truth is the key to sales on both sides, both the salesperson and for the prospect. How she used her intuition in creating and changing her podcasts. She's had many podcasts, and they're very popular.
What happens if you get knowing your intuition, but you don't act on it, and how she got intuitive nudges that her podcast co-host was not a fit before was a disastrous blow-up. That will be interesting. That relates to the benefits and dangers of being a positive fruit inspector, always looking for the best in people. Finally, we'll look at overcoming fear of what other people, which I know a lot of entrepreneurs have that one. I used to have that too. Welcome, Vicki.
Vicki Fitch : Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much, Michael. I'm so happy to be here. This is going to be so fun. I've been looking forward to it.
Michael Light: Me too. Let's start with if you're doing a sales call and you're with a prospect, and prospects sometimes lie. How can you use your intuition and their body language or whatever else you use to tell what they're really thinking? Tell us about that.
Vicki Fitch : Well, for me, just watching people … I call them microexpressions, and I'm sure I got that from somewhere else. I don't believe that was my own information there, but the way their eyes look, the way they retract or develop. I'm not talking about the generalization of the lean in that people talk about in sales training or whatever. I'm talking about looking at their face, the way they're smiling, if they're more in a wince, just really looking at people. I think it's just something that for some people just comes naturally to identify what's happening, that the muscles in our face tell so much of a story.
That's why people say, “Your eyes are lying,” because your eyes are so critical. We do wince or pull back, or when we smile in a true smile, it comes up in our eyes. I really do look at their body language and what's being said and how it's being said, including their voice inflection. It's looking at all those things together. And asking the deep questions to really kind of get underneath and figure out what it is because I think a lot of people don't even know they're lying. They're saying rote things that they've heard before, someone said, and they're kind of regurgitating it, but they don't even know whether or not they believe it. It's just what they've heard.
Michael Light: What's an example of a rote thing a prospect might say, and what might you say back to get to the truth?
Vicki Fitch : Well, it depends. If overcoming objections and they're talking about price, for instance. It's like, “Oh, that's too much.” You can go through those standard things of how much too much, and go through those. I use what I call “If I could, would you?” If the price was less, then would you be going ahead? Because then we're getting down to where this thing where somebody told them, “No matter what it costs you're going to say that because you're trying to negotiate,” or that this is as much as you can spend.
I have a thing, and I call it the buying threshold, that we have this buying threshold. It's an invisible number. Now, in a company, it might be a specific number that they've identified, but there's this number that people won't spend without either feeling guilty or without consulting someone else. When we can get through that, we need to help them really justify it in a legitimate way, not with illegitimate tactics or trying to manipulate people. We just need to help them to see that if this is going to … is a pain point that we can solve, that money is less of an object because it's really about solving a pain point, which can certainly over time cost a lot more money. Again, I just try and really ask those questions to figure out if that really is … I mean because, again, you know there's a lot of standard answers that people come up with without really connecting. Hopefully, that answered your question.
Michael Light: Absolutely. When you say microexpressions, I'm thinking that's both things that are small, it may be only their eyes crinkling in a certain way, but it also is a short period of time, it might only happen for a fraction of a second.
Vicki Fitch : Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, and they can be really quick. I mean when someone winces or you … Let's say you gave a price and it's $26,000, and they go … Their eyes kind of open up or their mouth or they take a deep breath or something like there's a shock value or something that's there. That's your job to not ignore it. Most salespeople will either ignore it or attack it, but that's not representative of what people need. They need you to ask them questions because, again, if they let that slip by accident, they're already embarrassed, right? Because nobody likes to let people know that number one they can't afford something or number two it was different than what they thought because we typically try to be in control or have a good idea.
When we get information that we weren't expecting, our body says something, it tells us a little bit about it. Then it's your job as a salesperson to then go in and say, you know, find out what were you thinking? What budget did you have for the project? Let's talk about things and find out a way because I actually had a client recently that I had given a proposal to and there was the owner and then there was the manager. The manager looks at it, and she goes, “I think this is the filet mignon, and we need the regular steak.” I said to her, “I can totally appreciate that, but I believe that you need the filet, and let me tell you why.”
And so, we went over why that was and how it was going to change their business exponentially over the next six to nine months versus trying to cut it out and piecemeal it together later. Well, they're going to have limited results. That's just one expression of … Again, a salesperson should never be intimidated by the shock or adjustment of a client. We should find out what it is that they're feeling, find out how we can solve that pain point.
Michael Light: That makes total sense. When you're doing work, doing calls with people, how do you use your intuition to weed out the tire kickers and any other bad fits, prospects? Because you know not 100% of the people we talk with are a good fit.
Vicki Fitch : We used to have gourmet beef jerky business and it was not inexpensive. It was absolutely fantastic beef jerky. People would come by and we'd call them the grazers. Now, if you guys were our client before, please don't be insulted. It was not something to insult you, but it's people that walk by and they want to sample different flavors and whatever, and then come back around the next time and like with their hoodie up and pretend that we don't know it's the same people. It's because they wouldn't ask for what they wanted. They wouldn't just say what they wanted. They wouldn't say, “Hey, you know what? I can't afford this here or I'm not gonna buy any today, but I'd really like another sample.” I would be thrilled to go, “Sure. Here you go. Have another one,” but to go grazing through the entire line up pretending that you don't even know what you like is silly.
I think that prospects do that same thing. Now I have a form that they fill out. It's about 32 questions. I do a free consult with people. Yes, and some people go 32 questions! Well, some of it's the basics: name, address, phone number, because we do send you guys something afterwards, and just the general things. Then I dive deep and ask a few questions because if you want me to help you, part of intuition, of course, is reading what they wrote and then hearing what they say because very often times … People, they'll tell me, “I love my job. I love this. I love it.” Then I read the form, and I say, “This says save me. This says save me. I hate my job. I hate what I'm doing. I don't have any idea how to get out. I went to school for this, and I'm stuck.”
People often don't know that they're miserable. They know that they're not happy, but they think that they can just maybe change this or change that. They don't realize they're in the wrong career or they're doing something, and when they've already paid for college, they feel really committed. I have a degree in this. I have to stay here. Part of my job is sometimes saying, “Hey, if that's what you want to do, then I'll help you make the best of it, but your heart is somewhere completely different,” and then kind of going through that. I don't know that that exactly answered your question because certainly didn't go through the tire kicker portion, which I'll be happy to add onto if you want me to.
Michael Light: Well, it sounds like grazers are a little like tire kickers. They like collecting information, right?
Vicki Fitch : Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right. People that want … they want to glean, glean, glean. What I do for those people that are just information collectors and have no intention of actually utilizing my services, I have a show every week, I live stream every day, and I call it Ask Vicki. I tell them those are great questions, send them to me, hashtag them Ask Vicki, ask a serial entrepreneur anything, and once a week I answer them. So, you'll get your answers for free, but I get to utilize is an opportunity to deliver it to the community. So everybody gets benefit, and you still get to graze.
Michael Light: That's a great way to deal with it.
Vicki Fitch : Thank you.
Michael Light: Yeah. You mentioned you get … you feel there's like a disconnect between what they wrote and what they say. Are there any other ways that your intuition tells you when someone is not a good fit?
Vicki Fitch : Well, sometimes when we're going through these conversations then you get … you feel the resistance. The excuses start about how this is never going … Oh, yeah. Well, you don't understand. You don't understand this. The excuses come out in droves like a dump truck that they're pouring on you. For me, I have a little form, and I just put a little X on the top. If I know that it's not a good fit, I stick a little X up in the top that says, “You know what? This isn't gonna work. That, that they are … They're not a good fit.” Now I have had a couple people come back and want to work with me after I've used the X, and I will give it one more chance. I'll say, “You know what? I already … Honestly, I marked on this form I don't think we're a good fit. Let me share with you and see if …” because they were nervous that day.
I'm a six-foot-tall redhead, and I'm kind of powerful like in terms of knowledge and information, so I can intimidate some people. If we can be honest about what was happening and see if their perspective changes, see if the communication level changes, then I could reconsider my opinion. But if they have the same one, the X stays and I love you. I can love you and you can continue to come to the broadcast, you continue to ask questions, and you can continue to graze, but my time is so valuable I have to love what I do. I have to be connected with people that are going to get value so I feel that my efforts are really worth something because it's not all about money for me. I get paid well, but it's not all about money. It's about watching other people grow.
Michael Light: Mm-hmm (affirmative). I think there's a lot of truth to that in valuing yourself and your own time and valuing their time. Can you serve them? Is it a good fit that way as well?
Vicki Fitch : Right, because if they're not going to do it, then what they're going to do is pay me money. They're not going to do it. They're not going to see results. Then what are they going do? They're going to blame me. Somehow it's my responsibility, but when I predicted it in the beginning, it is my fault because I already know that it's going to happen and so if I don't put the brakes on it in the beginning … My mom used to say, “Put the kibosh on it.” If I don't put the kibosh on it, then that's my bad. I try and take that proactive approach because I only want happy clients. I know that the odds say that eventually that that won't happen, but that's my goal is to make sure I have happy clients.
Michael Light: Why not? It's your business. You can decide to have only happy clients.
Vicki Fitch : Right?
Michael Light: What would it take to only have happy clients in our businesses?
Vicki Fitch : Again, we understand that there's miscommunication sometimes or somebody's going through difficult times, but in general, we want to supply the best we can. Again, when people do what we tell them to do, like something that's in our wheelhouse and our experience, and they do it and they succeed, then it's a celebration for everybody.
Michael Light: It is. I think that leads into the key importance of truth in the sales process because we use our intuition to feel where there's a mismatch and where things aren't truth.
Vicki Fitch : Sure.
Michael Light: It sounds like you've got a lot of skill about expressing the truth to your clients and prospects. Tell us a bit about truth and sales.
Vicki Fitch : Well, you know, sales is so unique, right? I mean we hear people all the time talking about close the sale and do this. It's all about the sale. There's that movie, Glengarry Glen Ross, the infamous thing where he holds the pen until they sign. It's like what is that, right? That's not serving a client or serving a need. Our honesty level, we have to have integrity in sales. If you're a skilled salesperson, you … My mom used to say to me, which I found offensive and this is really funny, but she used to say, “You could sell ice to an Eskimo.” It hurt my feelings, believe it or not, because I would say, “But I wouldn't. I wouldn't sell ice to an Eskimo, like unless they needed it. Like if there was a needed blocks of ice to create the igloo that they didn't have, yes.” But other than that I always felt like it was some kind of insult that my skill set of persuasion was … I didn't want to persuade people. I wanted to share with people information.
I always say sales is simply providing enough information for people to make an informed decision. No more, no less. When they have all the information they need, they get to make a decision on whether or not it benefits them. If they need more information … Like they think that it won't serve them and you have more, then it's really just that give and take process of the right way of delivering it. It's the integrity of making sure that you're aligning the right product or service with the client, not the right price point for you.
We all know that there are certain sales careers where your commissions are based on different things that you do. I'm not saying that you can't charge a full price. I want you guys to hear me about this, especially if you're a salesperson. I'm not saying if your company gives you a $2,000 margin to play with that you have to drop the 2,000 because you don't need the extra money. I'm not saying that at all. If you know that that client is going to be high maintenance, you better charge the 2,000 or you're going to be kicking yourself later, right? Because what your job is to provide the best level of service. You want to solve their pain points and deliver value. So don't undervalue your own skill set, but also try and add things in that they don't need just because you want to make more money. That's showing a lack of integrity for you as a sales representative, and the client needs to be honest about what they need.
The grazers I was talking about, they were honest about that I just want to try … I really like that teriyaki jerky. Just ask for a piece of teriyaki and stop pretending you weren't already here and don't know what that flavor tastes like. You know? What do you want? When people share what they really want … And it might be not something you can do. I want your top level $80,000 package for $20,000. All right, well now we have a starting point. If my $80,000 package was 20,000, then would you be going ahead with it? If the answer is yes, then we know that the $80,000 package suits their needs and now we have to figure out how to get where we need to be or what things can be removed.
You and I, we were talking about the filet mignon versus the steak, right? If they want the filet, they need to pay for the filet because that is the knowledge and accumulation of information that we've developed over long terms of being entrepreneurs. It's okay to hold your price point, and I highly recommend that you do. Did I answer your question?
Michael Light: You did, Vicki. That's a issue a lot of entrepreneurs have. That when they're selling, they give on the price point. How did you get to…
Vicki Fitch : I know. I just rolled my eyes. I rolled my eyes because that's one of the talks that I do all the time is how to elegantly hold your price point. Because most people are not really educated in sales, right? They don't understand that, again, it's okay. Your price point is okay. Dropping your price point ends up making you feel resentful, typically, right? That I'm not good enough or because you're afraid. You're afraid of the rejection because that's what we've coined it, right? You're afraid they're going to reject you. Saying no to a dollar value is not a rejection, but we all … You and I both know, Michael, that's what people feel inside. What we feel is our own reality until someone helps us reframe it, which is what I usually try and do. Help them reframe that by asking some questions and helping them identify what it is that's going on, and asking that question … Like I said, I use the if I could, would you's?
In my book, Direct Selling 101, I talk a lot about it because understanding, so if I could do that, would you be interested? Otherwise, what do we do? We end up arguing. Oh, I want this. I can't do that, but I can do this. No, I don't want … It ends up, it can be … Or oh, don't worry about that. Yeah, we've got that. It ends up being this argument. We need to get down to what people really want and then show them how what we have will assist them in achieving that goal or objective. So it gets reframed and they're on the same page. Did I answer that?
Michael Light: I love that. Yes, absolutely. I love-
Vicki Fitch : I always wonder sometimes if I move off a little bit, wrap it around, and I miss coming back.
Michael Light: It's okay to let the conversation flow. I think we need to go where the energy shows us instead of trying to stick to a script.
Vicki Fitch : Excellent.
Michael Light: You've had a lot of shows and podcasts, and I think used your intuition in creating those and also when to change them. Tell us a bit about how you use your intuition when you create … How did decide you were going to create a new podcast? How did decide you had one and it needed to get altered?
Vicki Fitch : Well, you know, I didn't intentionally start a podcast. I mean the truth is is that there was a platform called Blab. I've been a live streamer for a while. When Periscope first came out, the day it came out for Android I was on it and started producing content. A lot of our friends on the live streaming community on Periscope were saying, “Hey, you got to get over on Blab.” We went to the Blab company and we had the four boxes and we could chit chat. I was having this witty banter with someone one day and somebody was in the chat. They're saying, “Oh, my gosh. I would pay to see this show. You guys are hilarious.” This person said, “Hey, you want to do a podcast together?” I was like, “Okay.” I mean seriously it was that … I had no intentions or thoughts, and I just said, “Okay.” That's where it kind of started is that the …
Michael Light: Well, let's go … In that moment when you said, “Okay,” did you think about it at all or you had a feeling in your gut that this was good and fun or …
Vicki Fitch : Well, that's a good point. I love having fun. I'm a pretty sharp person in terms of wit. I love witty banter. I love to be silly and fun. That's what I was doing, and I was really in my element. It was fun and I was laughing and everybody was laughing. It was entertaining and it was just really fun. So, yeah. I would say that because normally … Because you really asked a great question. Normally when somebody asks me to do something, my first answer is let me think about that. There's always a barrier …
Michael Light: Protection. Yeah.
Vicki Fitch : … because I want to process it, evaluate it, but because the fun factor was there, which is something that's really critical to my being, is that I didn't even hesitate. Because I thought this is a great … It's not work for me. This is a release. It's a stress reliever, and it's fun, and I didn't have to prepare anything. That is one of the things I said. “The only thing I'm gonna do is show up and entertain.” That's what I said. That's the truth. Now, that didn't end up happening exactly, but it did in the beginning. He ended up not being the most quality individual. I found that out much later, but he kept … The podcast didn't get up. The episodes were being recorded. Everything was going great.
We even had people, sponsors, and different things going on, but I kept saying, “Why isn't it on iTunes yet? Why isn't it on iTunes yet? Why isn't it on iTunes yet?” Oh, and he kept giving me all these excuses. I thought, “Whatever.” I didn't know anything about podcasts. “Oh, you have to wait and they have to approve it.” He just kept giving me these excuses. Again, it wasn't something I was using as a revenue stream so I didn't really worry about it. I was just having fun. Then I paid to have a website done. I paid to have a custom logo done and a website done. People kept saying, “When's the podcast coming out?” I'd be like, “When is the podcast coming out? I know the recordings are here.”
It just, you know, things kind of went array because then there was a tour that he asked me to go on, to go tour. It turned out, unfortunately, that he was taking people's money for this tour, and apparently, because I didn't find out until the day before I was supposed to leave, that he … that it wasn't happening and he hadn't … Then he didn't give people's money back until we got really aggressive. So, it was really, really sad. It was a really sad thing because I'm a lover of people. I have a really, really open heart. It crushed me because I believed him and I cared for him. It really crushed me that he would … Not that he would make a mistake because people do, but to not give the money back and then push it and push it and push it. I said, “Until you pay these people back, I will not do a podcast.” That's where I went having substitutes for my … The he on the show, which is called He Said, Red Said. I had substitute he's. That's kind of how that went.
Michael Light: Well, good for you standing up yourself there, and standing up for all the clients that paid the money.
Vicki Fitch : Yeah.
Michael Light: Looking back on it, were there any intuitive nudges that you got that he wasn't really a good fit?
Vicki Fitch : Well, I'm going to say … Because what I consider intuitive, for me as a Christian, the Lord really puts pressure. My heart, I feel a constriction in my heart when certain things happen or a little tickle in my tummy, those kind of things. I didn't have that. I felt sorry for him because in his business he would make claims that were silly because it's in a field that I'm very familiar with. I would think, “Aw, I'm gonna have to teach him that.” I just kept thinking in a very maternal, “Aw,” or maybe like a big sister like, “Oh, I got to help him with that.” I remember one of the most ridiculous things he used to say was that “You don't need a website.”
Now, whoever's listening, if you don't have a website or … I'm not … Don't yell at me. I'm going to give you my business acumen here. That in this day and age, you need a website. That's my personal opinion. It's the hub of where we drive traffic to, and we use social media. Even my podcasts are automatically uploaded to my website. It just gives people a place to know I can trust you and find out who you are. He kept saying, “Oh, I have social media. I don't need a website.” I say, “You don't own that. You don't own that list. You know Facebook can shut you down. Twitter can cut you off.”
Look what happened with Blab. I had it think 10,000 followers on Blab and boom, one day they just shut it down. I mean no notice. Like literally they sent out a medium post and it was already down. It was awful. I had 30 something shows booked. I mean it was awful, but it just goes to show that social media is not your content. It's their platform, you are just a player, and you can be wiped off the board without your permission at any time. So, having a website is a critical piece. Every time he would say that, that's where he'd get the fitchslap. Where I was like, “Don't say … Do not tell people that because they. If they want to secure themselves long term, they need to have a website.” Anyway, I didn't feel like I had that real intuition piece, I just felt sorry for him.
Michael Light: Was that maybe covering up some intuitive info that you felt, caring for him?
Vicki Fitch : Maybe. I mean honestly, because even later … Because I'm a pretty smart person, so I looked back and go … When I supposed to leave the next day, and I kept saying, “Where's my plane ticket? Where's my plane ticket?” He kept telling me, “This is the date. This is where you're leaving. This …” I just chalked it up to him being a guy. Don't me mad at me, but guys are not always the best with details, right? And so I chalked it up.
Did I cover it up because I cared? It's possible. I mean it is possible for sure. Even when I think here now, I don't know. I mean it's beyond me that it happened. I definitely got a little leery at end like is this really going to happen? He had me … Anyway, booking hotels and different stuff. I asked him a couple times, face to face, we were on Skype. I was like, “This is happening for real, right? I just had to go buy new equipment so we could do the show on the road. I had to hire my son a tutor. You know, I had to let go of two of my clients so I would have the time to do this tour.” “No, no. Everything's good. Everything's good.” Some people are just really good liars. They're just really good liars. When they practice so much like we were talking about that poker face.
Michael Light: Yes.
Vicki Fitch : When they practice so much, apparently I didn't read or was somehow suppressing what I knew. I still, even to this day, don't recognize … Because it's not like it's something I really wanted and so I would push aside common sense. I don't know. It's one of those mysteries for me right now. Maybe someday it'll be really clear, and I'll go, “Oh, yeah. That was it.”
Michael Light: Well, it sounds like you got some benefits in your life. You got some growth through the experience.
Vicki Fitch : Oh, yeah. If it wasn't for that whole experience of doing the podcast, I wouldn't have maybe had the same inclination to start the second one, which was Vicki Fitch Live, because I loved interviewing people. On that show, it was really the witty banter part, so this fun side of me. The Vicki Fitch Live was me exploring people's lives, of who they are. Not the same stuff everybody else asks, but really getting into their heart. I have a new book coming out called Evict the Bully in Your Head. On the first Wednesday of the month, I do the evict the bully in your head series where always I need tissue. These people I've had on are … Oh, my gosh. It breaks my heart what they've gone through, but it's stories of people who have gone through trial and tragedy and turned it into triumph.
It's been this cool inspiration. I get the coolest messages from people about, “Oh, my gosh. That story broke my heart, and I love it though because I was going through this myself.” It nurtures another part of us, which it was showing that we're connecting with a larger audience and people that really need the information. I really appreciated that.
Michael Light: Yeah, and I think that's a good way to be in life, to grow from whatever the challenges are. Let's try and avoid the when we can.
Vicki Fitch : Exactly. I always say having a business coach is or a mentor is like the bumper guards at the bowling alley. There's no reason to end up in the gutter, right? We don't if we choose to. It's a choice.
Michael Light: Right. You talked earlier about how you're a positive fruit inspector, and we'll talk a little about that, but what are the benefits and danger of being someone who sees the best in people?
Vicki Fitch : I don't with if people are familiar with the Disney movie, Pollyanna. People always say, “Vicki, you're such a Pollyanna. Like you always believe the best in everybody.” I say, “You know what? I choose that.” I mean it is instinctual. It's not like I look at somebody and go, “Oh, my gosh,” and then I just try and pretend. I really do see the best in people. I think part of the book too is I always talk about we are a product of our own environment. Whatever we grew up with, whatever our parents said to us, whatever information they put in us, they put that bully in our head or the friends or the people that somewhere we got this information. So, we're a product of our own environment.
If there's new information that needs to come in, we have to blend it in, but we've got to understand that that's where we come from, right? When I look at people, and people do things that are mean or cruel or sarcastic or lousy, I think, “Aw.” I mean truly, in my heart, I wonder what happened to you where you think that you have to peacock like that or you have to pressure people into sales to make yourself feel better. Or are you doing it because you're so desperate to eat that this is the only thing you know? It still, again, doesn't come naturally. People don't … That's something that you … You're a product of your own environment. Somewhere along the line that's what you were taught.
I truly feel sorry for them and think, “How can I help? How can I solve the pain point?” Even if it's not something they're paying for, how can I help fix that because my heart hurts for them? It is hard and because I have such a big heart and this true. See, I might even get a little teary because I do love people dearly. I really do. In the book, I talk about these intimacy bubbles, right? An intimacy bubble is just you, or if you're a believer, it's you and God or whoever, whatever you believe in, the first one. The next one is the actual intimacy bubble, and that's with you and your mate or your spouse. The next one is your BFF bubble. The next one's your close friends. Then we got the friendly friend. We have these bubbles.
I tend to let people in. Sometimes if I let them in a bubble that's too close for where they should be, you know what their respect level is or their honesty level, my heart gets hurt, right? That's the truth. I know that. I try and be very careful about those, but again, if you fool me, and it could happen, if you fool me, then you do have ammunition to hurt me. Not long term hurt. I'm not going to fall over and never get up or whine and cry, but I'll have some tears. I'm a crier. That's my release valve. The pressure cooker release valve is tears and then I move on, right?
The positivity though I believe keeps me energetic and motivated, and it keeps me looking for the best in people because I don't want to be that jaded person that look at people and go, “I don't trust you.” You know?
Michael Light: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Vicki Fitch : You're going to have to work really hard to get in here. I don't want that. I want people to see me as approachable and I want to be aware and use my intuition to say, “You know what? That, that person shouldn't be here.” You know Jim Rohn used to say, “I will never hire someone without a woman in the room.” Because he says, “Looks like a sheep, acts like a sheep, and the woman says, ‘Ain't no sheep. Ain't no sheep.'” You know? I try to be that person that doesn't let people too close, but that's where the fruit inspector comes in.
As a Christian, we inspect … We don't judge people like I don't judge people. I don't judge where they've come from or who they are or even what they've done. Whether they've lied, cheated, or stole, I feel for them and hope that they can change. But a fruit inspector doesn't judge the person, it judges the fruit, the fruit of their activities. If they are lying, cheating, and stealing, then that creates rotten fruit. Rotten fruit will continue to contribute and eat away other pieces of fruit that are in your bowl. You got to remove the rotten fruit from your life. Now, if they get their act cleaned up and we have some surgery and cut out the rotten parts. We can doctor them up, they always come back, but we have to be careful because one piece of rotten fruit will infect everything that your whole life.
On team building, especially in the direct sales industry, if you have a bad apple in your team, they can create so much dissension it can destroy your organization from the inside out. You have to be really careful, but still always look with positivity at other people and look for ways that you can help them, is my opinion.
Michael Light: Yes, that makes sense. I mean that is very true in hiring. If you bring in someone who's not a fit into your team, it can affect the morale of everyone. It's also true in if you accept a client who is not a fit, and they turn out to be really challenging or have other issues, then that causes …
Vicki Fitch : Stress.
Michael Light: It causes stress and then you're not as good with your other clients. You're not as happy, not as healthy. It's just not a good idea. Just don't let the bad fruit in.
Vicki Fitch : That's right. Keep them out of the bubble.
Michael Light: Yes, and sometimes the bad fruit is wrapped up in so many layers of plastic and cellophane that you have to really kind of pull on all your intuitive skills and sniffing to like …
Vicki Fitch : Yeah.
Michael Light: But if you don't get a strong yes, then, for me, it's not a good. That's my fruit inspection process.
Vicki Fitch : Yeah, you know what? I think it's a good one, but have you ever found that you had the positive go and it wasn't good? It's almost like the neutrality is … It's like neutrality for me is the danger zone because if I'm neutral here then I feel conflicted. Because there's sometimes when people seem so great, but I think, as I process that I think that often times when people seem so good that if they're … That they're often times blowing a lot of smoke, and we often times know. I can think of hires that I made a long time ago because I really, I was desperate and they were the best candidate. The best out of the choices, and then you look back and go, “What were you thinking? I mean that had red flags all over it,” right?
Michael Light: Sometimes when the fruit is all polished up and primed and maybe had some of the blemishes painted out, maybe it's not quite as on the inside, you know?
Vicki Fitch : Yeah, the minute things start changing, you're like, “Whoa. What happened to that fruit?”
Michael Light: Yes.
Vicki Fitch : Takes the little package off and it's all scraped up and beaten up, and you're like, “Oh, that, that is not good.” But yeah.
Michael Light: Yeah. I mean, for me, the quality of the answer I get from my intuition depends on the quality of the question I ask my intuition. If I ask, “Is this client gonna be good for me?” That's a different question from saying, “Is this client gonna bring me joy and profits?”
Vicki Fitch : Right.
Michael Light: Here's why. Because they might be “good” because they give me a kick in the butt and they make me realize I need to improve my onboarding system or whatever the thing is.
Vicki Fitch : Sure.
Michael Light: And they were good on a spiritual level because I got to grow and the business got to grow, but they weren't bringing profits and they weren't bringing joy. So, I ask that question-
Vicki Fitch : Even if they bring profits and they might not bring joy.
Michael Light: Oh, I like to have both. You know?
Vicki Fitch : Me too. Me too, because the profits without the joy's empty.
Michael Light: Yeah, and joy without profits is fine for one pro bono client here or there, but not … If all your clients are not bringing you profit, there's a big, big problem there.
Vicki Fitch : And if none of them are bringing you joy.
Michael Light: Yeah.
Vicki Fitch : Because no matter much money you have if there's no joy … That's where these forms will say, “Save me. You know like I may have a million dollars, but I hate my job.” Like you said, it has to be the two because I got to tell you there are so many people in the 40 to 60 set … You know it used to find that they were like 40 to 50, but it's really pushed because some of those baby boomers didn't have people around like me to help them justify a change for joy. They're stuck in this is what I do, this is what.
Michael Light: That sounds like the title of your next book, Vicki. Justify the change for joy.
Vicki Fitch : Oh, I think you might be right. Don't you guys steal that now if you're listening to this podcast.
Michael Light: No.
Vicki Fitch : Not you. I meant the listeners.
Michael Light: We only have good fruit listening to this.
Vicki Fitch : Okay, there you go. I love it.
Michael Light: Yeah, go ahead if you were …
Vicki Fitch : I'm not even sure where I was going to go with it. Go ahead.
Michael Light: If you have intuition and you have a really clear knowing of what to do, but then you don't act on it, tell us about that. Because you mentioned earlier you've had that occur, and I think we all have in our lives.
Vicki Fitch : Actually I think … Well, I'm going to answer that with something different than what we said, and I think wrap it in with what you're talking about. It's really I'm going to talk about acting on it. When I get this strong intuition … I think I mentioned to you one time I was sitting in church and all of a sudden my heart, I felt like my heart was being ripped. I was like, “No. No.” I've learned now because when I was younger, I used to get information. The Lord was talking to me and I would just think, “Where did that come from?” Like you know how we just ignore it and say, “What was that? I'm not doing that?” I learned to now just say, “Yes, Lord.” Like okay, I just got to do it, but some things are scary and stressful. He's telling me that to go up and tell this pastor, this guest pastor I've never met before in my life, that is speaking that I need to go up and talk to him and tell his him this thing.
I'm starting to like sweat, and I'm a pretty … Like I said, I'm really strong personality. I don't have a problem. My comfort zone is so wide most people can't even find it. I don't have a problem doing anything, but here I'm like, “I don't even know this guy. You want me to say this?” I'm like, okay. I walk up there. I walk up and I go, “Hi. My name's Vicki.” I put my hand on his heart and I said, “The Lord just wanted me to tell you that you need to deal with this thing with your daughter.” He goes, “Hmm.” That was it, with like a curled lip, “Hmm,” which he obviously knew what I was talking about. I didn't even know if he had a daughter. I mean seriously, that's how … I was like, “Oh.” My heart starts pounding and he just grunted at me. I was like, “Okay. Have a nice day.”
Michael Light: Maybe backed off?
Vicki Fitch : I just walked off because I didn't know … I wasn't getting any other clarity but what I was supposed to do. I delivered the message, and I moved on. When things are strong … Go ahead.
Michael Light: Of course, we don't know the other side. It could be 17 other people also tapped him on the shoulder that day and said the same thing.
Vicki Fitch : Right?
Michael Light: You were number 17.
Vicki Fitch : Right? Okay, I got the message. Yeah, and like I said I didn't know if he had a daughter.
Michael Light: Yeah.
Vicki Fitch : I mean when you're coming with something that's coming out of the clear blue where you don't know anything, that's kind of … that's this weird territory of okay, this person could call me crazy or whatever. Like I said, in that regard, I learned to just obey when I have that pain my … I already know that that is what I'm supposed to do. Without that pain, then it's up to me. Then there's some jurisdiction. Is this me or is it real? We can play a little with ourselves.
With that podcast person we were talking about, you had asked me if there was any indication, and except for not being very good at his job I didn't find any indication. Except one friend did call me with a very vague and said, “Do you trust him?” I was like, “Trust him for what? Like trust him like he's gonna take advantage of me? No. I mean, yeah, I trust him.” I was like, “Not afraid of that. You know, what do you mean?” Because trust could be so … it could be such a huge topic. I was like, “Yeah. Yeah?” “Well, okay. I just checking.” I was like, “Why? Why are check? What does that mean?” But I didn't get any other details or any information.
Well, this person had heard that X, Y, and Z things, but they didn't tell me. That's a person that was supposed to be my friend, who felt really bad later but they were afraid that either I would reject them or be angry about it, or that they would be spreading some kind of gossip that they weren't really sure of. And so the trepidation ended up causing me so much misery. I wasn't angry with him. I was really disappointed because if it was my friend, no matter what, and we've talked about it before.
I always say it's like being a doctor, right? If the doctor knows you have cancer and doesn't tell you, they're not a very good doctor. It's their job to tell you. It's your job to decide what you want to do or if you don't want to do anything. If you want to let it continue to run its course, if you want to try an alternate method, whatever. But your job as a friend, as a person, is to share the information, and not in a way that attacks anyone else but just saying, “Hey. I don't even know if this is accurate, but this is what I heard. And I just thought maybe you should know or maybe you should check it out or investigate because I don't want you to get hurt. I don't want, you know, something like that to happen.”
That's where I think that we have to have some truth in our relationships too, is it that fear of not telling someone something because you're afraid that how they might react doesn't serve us well either. There's a different way then, you know, you don't go up and go, “Well, I heard this guy's a this, this, this, and you should get out.” That doesn't serve anyone, but saying, “Hey. This is what I heard. Don't have any … You know, it's not necessarily concrete. Don't want to say where I heard it, but you might want to investigate or check this out.” I think I answered your question.
Michael Light: I think that's a great way to look at it. I sometimes think of it as a bit like a game of tennis. You neither want to be holding all the balls on your side and never hitting them over the other side, which would be keeping the truth and your intuition to yourself. On the other hand, you don't want to like take your racket and leap over there and start pounding the other person with your version of the truth. It's got to be a give and take. You play the ball back and forth over the net.
Vicki Fitch : Absolutely. I agree.
Michael Light: I think that leads us into our final topic, which is overcoming the fear of what other people think of me, which I know a lot of entrepreneurs, business leaders have difficulty with that. It seems like you're a master of not being concerned what other people think about you.
Vicki Fitch : Well, you know, I would say that I'm actually … I am pretty good that. Because I mean, again, for me … I am as a Christian I always say I have an audience of one, that's Jesus Christ. The only person I'm trying to please is him. For me, that gives me some kind of peace, right? Because if I was trying to play the people like okay, I got to make you happy, I got to make you happy, I got to do this, I got to do … I got to make the sponsors happy. I got to make clients … If I'm constantly trying to juggle where the happiness meter is and with who, I'm never going to hit the mark. I'm going to miss it all the time. If I only have one stable place that I need to hit, then I feel secure.
I can't say that I was like … As a kid, I was always a really strong kid, but again, I had the bully in my own head that where I was a straight A student but I got excessive talking, so I wasn't good enough. I wasn't good enough. It's like what do you want? I could never hit the mark. I could never, never get it right. I don't want that to happen to other people, right? I want people to be who they are. The sequel to Evict the Bully in Your Head is called Own It: How to Step Up and Stand Out.
Part of it came from the fact that my son has Asperger's. He's always felt a little quirky. He's very high functioning and most people don't even know, so that makes it a little bit worse because their expectation level of the way he processes information is different then what's really going on on the inside. I wanted to teach him that you are okay just the way you are. There's behaviors that you have we need to curtail a little bit because they're interpreted as rude, and I know that's not what you're trying. So, we have to modify some things to make you, to make people … to make you very communicative with people, but we don't have to change who you are fundamentally.
That's what I see with entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs are trying to change themselves all the time to meet whatever criteria, whatever person, and it doesn't serve them well. Pick who you are, own who you are, and love who you are. Then your tribe will come because they will see a steady-Eddie person. They might come slowly, but those people that come will be solid and they'll be secure. Your tribe will grow of people that believe in you and your mission and your message.
As entrepreneurs, we have to stop being afraid that we're going to offend someone. You know I'm not afraid to say that I'm a Christian. I'm not afraid. Other people say, “Oh, don't ever tell people that your religion,” but that's who I am. I don't expect you to change for me, to be like me but this is who I am. If you're not part of my tribe, that's okay. We can still be friends. You don't have to like me. I always say I'm kind of that person, like there's not a lot of gray area, right? People love me or they hate me. There's not too many people riding the fence like I'm not sure about that girl because I'm just who I am, right? I mean it's all out there. I'm very transparent. This is who I am, and if you don't like me it's okay. I mean that's all right. It's your loss. I say that not as a … because I'm so cool, but because I like me. I really do like me and I will like you too, and we can see if we can be friends or if we can collaborate together. But don't be afraid to be you.
You have to find out who you are and be solid in that, and then not be afraid. Like I said, it's not easy being a business coach when people bring you ideas or say, “Okay, this is what I'm doing now,” and you have to say, “Okay. Well, let's talk about it. How's that gonna serve you?” You kind of go through the list. Well, you're a deal killer. Actually, not so much. You just have 87 things on your plate and you're asking me to help you narrow them down. You don't like the answers because you're distracted, you're frustrated and you want to move to something else because you don't want to continue putting the effort in here. They don't like to hear that, but if we deliver information with dignity and respect, they have a choice then. They can love us or they can hate us, right? They can make their choice, but it's not because we're bad people. It's because they don't … if they don't want to face the truth, then they're not really a good fit anyway, right?
Anyway, that's my opinion of how to start getting secure. Find people that understand you. Find a business coach or a mentor that you believe has clarity and direction to give you, and then listen to that person and stop getting … Don't survey the masses for heaven's sake. You'll put yourself into oblivion of a ping pong ball bouncing all around or a pinball machine trying to figure out where am I going to go? What am I doing? You'll never feel secure, and you'll never build a tribe around people that say, “Oh, that's a solid citizen.” Anyway, that's my answer.
Michael Light: I think that makes sense to me. It's not just if you have a YouTube channel or a show or whatever, it's also when you're hiring staff and being able to be okay telling them the truth, whatever they're going to think of you, or with your clients.
Vicki Fitch : Yeah.
Michael Light: It just applies all around. It's a lot easier just to be yourself.
Vicki Fitch : But they got to like themselves. Don't you agree, Michael? Because when people don't like themselves or they don't trust themselves or they think other people don't like them, they take that opposite and they start peacocking, right? It's like the defense mechanism. We either withdraw or we go forward. I'm going to be right. I'm going to be in your face or I'm … It's that distance.
The people that other people follow are the ones that are right here, you know exactly where they stand. They don't need to get in your face. They don't have to withdraw from you. If you hurt their feelings, they can still stay right there. Even with tears down my face I can stand right there and go, “Ouch. Okay. That hurt, but I don't know what's going on with you why you think you need to approach me that way. That hurt my … I am hurt,” but I'm not going to withdraw. I'm not going to tell you, “You're a jerk.” I'm going to be right here and you're going to recognize that I'm still who I am regardless of how you wanted to treat me.
Your posture tells me that you're insecure, not that I am. So, when we start looking for those signals and seeing the insecurities in people … Both sides are insecure. They're just being held differently. If we can find the people in the middle, or as people come to us to be part of our tribe we can help guide them into the middle. That zone of I'm okay with who I am. You don't have to like me. It's not going to change who I am.
Live streaming is a great example. We get trolls in all the time. Do you live stream on Periscope or Facebook Live, Michael?
Michael Light: No. Currently, all my shows are pre-recorded.
Vicki Fitch : Okay.
Michael Light: I have done Facebook Live, so I get an idea of what you're talking about. I've given presentations live and you certainly sometimes get some wacky characters in the audience.
Vicki Fitch : Right, some hecklers or something, right?
Michael Light: Yes.
Vicki Fitch : You'll get that on those live streaming where people will say, “I can't bring my business to live stream. I can't because people will make fun of me.” I say, “Well …” I tell them …
Michael Light: So what?
Vicki Fitch : Right. I have this thing, I call it troll patrol. I'm like, “Aw, are you a troll?” Then like they spell things wrong. “Honey, you have to learn how to spell if you want to be a troll.” Then I'll say, “Do me a favor. Why don't you actually contribute to this conversation? We might actually change your life. You might start a business. You might actually have some self-esteem instead of being behind a camera trying to pick on someone that you feel is vulnerable. So, come on. Why don't you join us and stop?” Because, right? That's what they're doing. They're posturing. I feel insignificant in my life, let me go see if I can hurt someone. Let me go see if I, “Ha, ha, ha. Look it. I made her cry.” Or, “I made her cancel … get off of her live stream.” Don't let other people direct your path as an entrepreneur. Do what works. Practice it. You'll get better, and don't worry about the trolls. Let them go away or come to me. I'll teach you how to deal with them. I'll teach you. We have fun. We have fun with them.
Michael Light: I love that way you deal with trolls, because you're addressing the truth that they're trolling, but you're doing it a somewhat light-hearted way, and you're inviting them to engage.
Vicki Fitch : Right. We're trying to get them to change and not attack them. Go, “Look you little punk. You know, you come on my live stream. My people are gonna block you.” Which they will anyway, the people will … But you don't do … Because what that does … Who is that helping? All's it is doing is the troll, irritating the troll so he's going to go find someone else who's less able to protect themself.
We engage them and start having them … Like one of them I did. I had what I call a troll conversion. I asked him to get involved in the conversation, and before the end he told me he is a auto dealership in Germany. He started telling me about his business and asking for advice. Did he troll somebody else later? I don't know. He told me he wasn't going to. I said, “Stop being a egghead.” We call it an egghead when there's an egg because they don't put a picture. “Stop being a egghead. Crack the egg. Put your picture up there and step up your game. And actually try and generate business, and stop hiding behind this kind of efforts. You can change your business.”
Again, he said he would. I don't know if he did. I do know somebody came into a broadcast a few weeks later. It said it was him, don't know if it was or not, saying, “I change my profile and blah, blah, blah.” See, so our positive influence can help other people. It's not going to help everybody, but some people will, again, benefit from … Your vibe attracts your tribe, right? Maybe he's one of our tribe now.
Michael Light: That's wonderful. Well, thanks for sharing that story and all the other things you told us about, Vicki. It's been wonderful talking with you.
Vicki Fitch : Aw. Thank you for inviting me. I really appreciate it. I hope that I gave your audience some value for sure, because obviously that's what I want to be here, and I want to honor you and your time as well. Thank you so much.
Michael Light: Thank you. If people wanted to find more about you, how would they do that?
Vicki Fitch : The best way, of course, is to go to my website, which is vickifinch.com. It's V-I-C-K-I F as in Frank, I-T-C-H.com. Check things out, and if they want a free consultation if they're actually looking for someone to help them level up their business they can go to /20 or go to the Work With Me page.
Michael Light: Also, you can be found on Facebook every day at six p.m. Pacific, right?
Vicki Fitch : Yeah. Six p.m. Pacific on Facebook Live as well as Periscope. I'm on both of those platforms every day at six o'clock. I even have that Ask Vicki segment where they #askvicki and send me a tweet @Vicki_Fitch, and I will answer your questions even if you're a grazer. You guys are welcome to come and let me give you some free advice.
Michael Light: Great. Well, thanks so much. Bye.
Vicki Fitch : Bye.
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