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Michaela Light 0:02
Welcome back to the show. I'm here with Natalie Thompson from the United Kingdom in the northern bit of Rochdale. And
she has a beautiful accent you're going to Fhear in a minute, we're going to be talking about how she brings spiritual work, in her case, breathwork and cacao into the corporate world. And she has a whole business around recruiting that she built. But then she got this message inside that she should bring in the spiritual side as well as the corporate side. And we'll talk about why she did that. And why what you know what's about there? In the episode, if you don't know Natalie, she spent a long time in the corporate world. She's the founder, founder of Pangea global associates, which is an executive search company worldwide. Find senior talent for software and tech vendors across the world, which is probably how I found you naturally searching on LinkedIn for amazing people. I think you actually commented on you either wrote your own posts, I thought was good, or you commented on someone else's, I forget which. But we were obviously destined to meet and talk about this stuff. And she's also co founder of breathe plaque Pray Love, which provides mental health through breathwork and plant medicines. And her goal for this year is to raise the planet's vibration through breathwork. And ceremonial cacao. Welcome. Thank you. Okay, yeah, well, you wrote it doesn't it? Yeah. So it's pretty interesting mix you have, you've got the corporate thing, you do executive search, software vendors, but you also want to raise the vibration of the planet. And you don't keep those two separate, because, you know, a lot of people listening, you know, they have a spiritual side. But maybe they keep it separate, and they're a bit afraid to bring it to work. So I'm kind of curious, how did you get into this, all this spiritual woo-woo stuff,
Natalie Thompson 2:04
or the woowoo. I mean, it's, it's tricky, you know, it's, it takes
it takes some strength and resilience and kind of inner knowing that you're doing the right thing to, you know, to really push forward with it on in both, you know, both sides of your life, because the me, I think, you know, the Pangea side of the business, it's been my baby for 13 years. And I grew it from nothing.
And when the sort of the more spiritual aspects of me started to come out, sort of four or five years ago, I did not know at that point that it was going to lead here. So it was obviously very separate. But then I think with you know, what happened with COVID, and people having more time and things changing. And then me discovering the breathwork, and the cacao, and spending more time doing both in lockdown, and healing so much of my stuff. It was like, right, I have a way of bringing this to the corporate world. And I'm not sure how to do it. But I feel like that is what I'm here to do. And so it's been interesting because there's been a real
Michaela Light 3:17
I'm going to interview there. How did you know did like an angel tap you on the shoulder? Or you get a dream? Or did you I'm always curious how people get their intuition because everyone gets different ways.
Natalie Thompson 3:27
And it was like the thing with the breath work so I'd done my sister introduced me to breath work my sister lives in the Isle of Man changes introduced me to a lady called Rosemary O'Donoghue who I'm actually doing the Corporate Online breathwork course with Now we put the course together. But she introduced me to Rosemary and said, try a breath work. I think it'll be really good for you. Because I'd always suffered with a lot of anxiety.
Michaela Light 3:51
Yeah, what does breathwork mean? Because some people listening may not Does that just mean you breathe a lot. It's a
Natalie Thompson 3:57
it's a conscious, connected breath. Okay. So it's a conscious connected breath to music with guidance, which basically enables you to have either a physical or emotional or mental release spiritual. It sounds like a lot of people say it's meditation, I do breath work, I do annotation. They don't do breath work like breath work is it's quite hard work. It's like either sort of 15 2040 minutes of conscious connected breathing, which enables you to tap into just that kind of that intelligence, that innate intelligence that's already in your body and the higher self. And if you allow yourself to go into it, you will release trauma. So we all have trauma. We have big trauma, we have little little trauma, big traumas, obviously, you know, the huge events that massively impacted your life. But then there's also the smaller traumas, you know, being told to eat greens being told, you know, that you're not worth you know, that you can't wear those shoes or whatever it is. In that moment that stops you from being your authentic self. And you suppress that and you push it down, it's held in the body and it becomes a trauma in the body. So by some miraculous way, the breath work enables you to tap into releasing the trauma from the body. So you either have a release physically, it's like shaking convulsing, sounds terrifying. It's amazing, you feel totally free. Or you have an emotional release, where you literally just you can just feel it coming up and you cry. And you whale, I experienced a lot of that I was never a crier. I was a big suppressor. So breathwork, for me, was a game changer. But but it took a while. So just coming back to your question. And, you know, it took me five girls of breathwork, before I had any release at all, but I still felt really called to it, I still felt like, there's something I don't know what it is. But there's something in this that is really pulling me towards it. And I feel like I need I need really need to explore it. So during during the during COVID. Obviously, no one was recruiting. And I Why
Michaela Light 6:10
not seems like the perfect time to find great people.
Natalie Thompson 6:14
Nobody's hiring at all. Say, yeah, not in my straightaway. But you know, there was it was just a brilliant time for me to just stop. And, look, he had a good year before. So I just took some time out and did a course and did all this bracket myself. And honestly, just was, I was like, Wow, I can't believe what this has done. It was just constantly releasing and releasing and releasing just years and years of stuff, even maybe past life stuff. Who knows. So it was it was from that, that I was like, You know what I feel like, with this big shift that's going on in the planet, and people being called more into their purpose rather than following you know, the line of just get a job and just make decent money. You know, I was just starting to feel like this is my calling. Because, you know, having suffered some, you know, anxiety and panic and stuff myself, I knew that this was a way of ensuring that people could could heal from that. So that was the poll. Do
Michaela Light 7:18
you mean, what do you mean panic? Can you dig into that a bit? So, when I was that look like yeah, when you were 19, you have a panic attack.
Natalie Thompson 7:28
When the panic attacks, you wouldn't have known that I was having a panic attack. Some people were secret panic attacks, the secret there were secret. So it was it was more of a feeling of complete overwhelm. And my I know now what it was I know it was the nervous system kicking in the survival mode kicking in but at the time, I just thought was going mad. And so the adrenaline would be there. I'd want to run
Michaela Light 7:49
I didn't want to say anything. Now labor both you and I are a bit mad by society's current conventions, you know? Absolutely. Absolutely. Maybe. Maybe it was your true self who wanted to come out from this constrained corporate living? Yes,
Natalie Thompson 8:06
I imagined I imagined there was an element of suppression there, you know, and maybe not feeling safe to be my full self. And but either way, when they started showing up the panic attacks, they, you know, they got to a point where they were like four or five times a day. I didn't know what they were people. Yeah, I didn't know what they were. And I was also scared to tell anyone in case they locked me up because I thought, yeah, this is, you know, fatality one. They might say this has been really badly wrong with me. So
Michaela Light 8:37
think of just cut cutting back on the 10 cups of coffee. You were drinking a day.
Natalie Thompson 8:42
I didn't really drink coffee to be relieved. But I couldn't even blame it on that. But this is once you're in survival mode. Yeah. Anything. You know, you're really well, I'd actually been I'd been jumped in a nightclub some girls end up in a nightclub? Well, it was anyway. I mean, I went I went into the toilets while these girls were another girl and I stepped in and said, Well, what are you doing? And next thing they were on top of me, but because it was very quiet, nobody came in so it went on for quite a while thought was gonna die. And to be honest with you, the panic didn't start straightaway. It started about three months later. And but what I found out is that three months after a traumatic events is the time really when something like PTSD kicks in if you don't actually I
Michaela Light 9:36
was gonna say, post traumatic stress disorder, because yeah, I just want to say for people listening, a lot of people not we think of PTSD as something that soldiers get right. You know, you're in a battle and your mate blown into 17 pieces next year, and it's a bit of one let's not go into the details. Otherwise, we might get more PTSD, but, but really, you can get it and get it in a nightclub. You can get it from a relationship that went bad you can get it from, you know, parents beating you, you can get it from school teachers being mean. And you can get it in the corporate world from from either side, either if you're the boss, or if you're the employee that everyone gets formers.
Natalie Thompson 10:19
Typically what it is with with PTSD is it's when the window of tolerance becomes unmanageable. So, for me, it wasn't just that event, it was other events that were happening at the time, it was unresolved stuff as well. So PTSD, typically, I mean, obviously, if you're in a soldier, and you're more than it, it's probably more than that. But for other people like URI, you know, it can be just if there's too much happens within within a period of time, and it isn't resolved, it isn't released, it isn't processed. That's when it says to PTSD,
Michaela Light 10:50
does this mean that if we're living in a somewhat structured stressful situation, MatPat for an example, we're living in a world where the inflation is high, and there's a war going on in Europe, and I won't list all the other wacky, wacky stuff that's going on. And a lot of people are stressed out, right? They don't I mean, I think I've not I don't know if you've noticed this, I've noticed in my sales calls and other things people take forever to get back to me. And it's not because they're not interested. It's just they're stressed out. They can't deal with any more stuff. They've been told to buy the news to be upset about, you know, thing A and then thing B and then things c and now we're on like letter L or whatever. And it's weren't how many months? Are we in the year, it's September, nine months, and usually was like, maybe a year, there's one thing that you're supposed to get really wound up about, right? But this year has been endless. You know, it's
Natalie Thompson 11:44
relentless. Ramping, ramping it up, for sure. Yes, ramped
Michaela Light 11:48
up. And so what I'm saying is Anthro on top of that the economy is a bit wobbly right now. And a lot of people are stressed at work as well.
Natalie Thompson 11:58
And the energy stuff, the energy stuff that's coming in now they're gonna
Michaela Light 12:03
Well, yeah, the energy shift, there's a whole spiritual awake.
Natalie Thompson 12:07
Oh, no, no, sorry. I didn't know. I mean,
Michaela Light 12:10
I don't mean, well,
Natalie Thompson 12:10
I mean, actual energy prices.
Michaela Light 12:13
So that kind of energy. I thought, yeah.
Natalie Thompson 12:18
That's too early for that.
Michaela Light 12:19
We'll answer that in a minute. How much do you have to pay for angels in the United Kingdom? Now? Is it up to two pounds?
Natalie Thompson 12:26
For you to me? Yes.
Michaela Light 12:28
So yeah, that's the energy crisis that some people feel is that anyway, it doesn't matter. Let's not frighten them. Yeah, listening too much. But my point is, people are very stressed right now. And I find I'm curious, if you find this people are slower to respond, even if they're interested in stuff. And they kind of need a bit more hand holding and emotional space and patience. And it's okay, if you hadn't got back to me, I'm still going to be loving and whatever, I've got my boundaries too. But you know, I can create a container in my business where I support my prospects and my customers through their stresses, and I provide an island of calm. I don't know if you do that or not. But
Natalie Thompson 13:14
I just think that people are completely overwhelmed by how much they have going on. Like your Xbox is constant, like what I have to do now, even if something is really interesting to me, and I guess, if it's not work related, I just end up having to delete it. Because otherwise, I know that I'm going to be thinking and our need to do that. And then and then I've got to do my Instagram and I've got to do my Facebook and I need to be posting content. And then you know what, it's just there's just this constant feeling of doing doing doing it's that masculine, that masculine energy drive in everything. And I think people just become very overwhelmed and have to kind of say, You know what, I look at that the minute,
Michaela Light 13:59
but it's like, Brett is like breathing. You can't spend your whole life just breathing in and inhaling without exhaling. And we can't spend the whole time doing doing doing without taking time for rest and recovery or doing breathwork or cacao or plant medicines, whatever you do to release the micro traumas. Yes, I happen. And I did want to say one other thing related to your business, which is a lot of entrepreneurs and bosses I know have what I call trauma around hiring, they hired someone they didn't work out, and now they're a little shy about they're a little reluctant to hire someone else because they're afraid it will be another eff up you know, and I see that as a scar they have around hiring. I don't know if you ever come across that at all.
Natalie Thompson 14:45
I don't I've not seen anybody say oh God, we've just lost someone. So now we're not gonna replace them. I don't say no, say.
Michaela Light 14:51
People don't say we don't live in a world where people are upfront about oh, I've got this trauma. Here. Let me open my kimono. Promise I have Have No they just behave different?
Natalie Thompson 15:02
Yeah, yeah, possibly possibly, I think people can get quite disheartened. I've got a few CEOs that I work with who you can tell they're a bit a bit desktop, disheartened and a bit, they feel a bit like, especially with hiring in the US, I get quite a few people, people in the US, they just, they just talk the talk and actually, you know, especially when it comes to like, my salespeople and stuff, they typically say, you know, these guys, they're, they talk the talk, but actually, can they really do it? Can they really do it? They kind of always embellish? Like, how good they are? And how, how much of the deal they actually did, like, yeah, I've just done this massive deal. And actually, they just went and got the, you know, the paper off the order of the fax machine, you know, so Well, that's what that's for the, that's what the hiring managers to drill down. And, and I do think as well, you know, hiring managers, and, you know, leaders need to take some responsibility for making the decisions and using, like, using their intuition. And but also like, you know, selling as well selling the opportunity to the candidate, because Gone are the days where you can say, right, then why do you want to join us? You know, it's got to be more about, you know, you selling the opportunity, because a lot of these people, they might have four or five offers, they're probably not looking for a role when I approached them, they're not looking for a role, you know, right.
Michaela Light 16:18
Not good ones on the A players often already have good job. Exactly, you know, so unless there's a company wide layoff, and the A players get kicked out with the B players, and any C players that happen to have snuck into the company, then they're not on the job market. And the other thing I was saying I did a, I have another podcast around programming, which is kind of, you know, somewhat related. And I was interviewing someone, he wanted to find a job because he got his company pivoted, and the whole team got laid off. And I said to him, you know, maybe 80% of jobs don't even get advertised. You know, it's all through the network. And people like you who are match matchmaking, I would call, see me, do me a match, you're more of a matchmaker, you'll find the perfect match for this person, this person, then helping them get through that initial icebreaking period where they're a little nervous before they get married, you know? Yeah. So
Natalie Thompson 17:12
it's been able to actually identify, this is what these guys are looking for? Who has those skills? Who has a culture fit? And who's willing to even look at it, you know, that. That's what's time consuming about it? You know, they're not they're not on job boards, they're not looking at people's jobs. And they're also getting approached by about 25, or the companies at the same time. So, you know, and they're jaded. Yeah, totally. I have to stand out and have to have a specific approach, which typically works, which is about being authentic, more than anything.
Michaela Light 17:48
That's very, whatever the word is, I can't think of the word but unusual in this year, radical, it's radical in this year in the corporate world to be authentic. So much lying and spin and political maneuvers,
Natalie Thompson 18:03
I can't be I can't be any other way. Like, it would make me feel to be anything other than completely honest, in what I do. And I've been that way, all the way through. My, certainly when I've had my own business, feels like, you know, morally, I am a great believer in the universe, is working in people's favor. And for me, if I find somebody for a role, and the right, and they accept it, then great, but if they don't feel it's right, I'm not going to manipulate them or pushy or tell lies so that they take the job. That's just not
Michaela Light 18:42
because it's so it would be short term dollars or pounds in your pocket, but it would be long term regret and feeling good about yourself. Right? And probably Yeah, they wouldn't work out. I find the same thing when we, you know, we do custom software development. And if the customer doesn't feel like a good fit for between the two of us or the projects, we can't do the best work on the project. Why say yes, it's just a disaster zone, you know? So
Natalie Thompson 19:08
I think you've got to just trust that life is happening for you. And the less you get in the way, the more it can do its job.
Michaela Light 19:17
Well, that's kind of the flow view of life, the Divine Feminine view. You and I think it also relates if you've if you don't work with this candidate or this job, another battle and you say clearly to the universe, no, that's not a fit. It's not, then the universe will provide something even better. And I've seen that so many times that I say no to something that feels off for all that there clearly are off in three dimensional world, you know, some way and then something better turns up so
Natalie Thompson 19:51
yeah, totally agree. Yeah. I'm all for just trying to go with flow. What I do notice is if I if you have a patch where it is a bit quiet or things have you know, I mean, I've had things recently where people have been due to start on a day, and they've all signed, you know, money. Then they say, Oh, by the way, I'm not starting today, because Amazon have just offered me 30k More than the new guys have offered. So I won't be starting. So, you know, in that moment, you're like, oh, my god, that was like a six month that was a six month, start again. For me, it's like, you know, what, just trust it. It wasn't meant to me, don't don't block the process with your own fear. And it shouldn't be this, it shouldn't be that it's just like, just let it you know, let it crack on me.
Michaela Light 20:39
I've seen that on the other side. You know, when I was starting out as a manager 30 something years ago, when someone quit the company, I try and hold on to them. And I'd be, you know, in a scarcity mindset, and I try and convince them say it now, like, if someone wants to quit, it's like, yeah, great. How can I help you out? Can I make your transition easy? No, I mean, you know, you don't have to leave immediately, you have a chance to have a transition, sometimes what we do is have a like, we don't, I can't, my company is 100% virtual now. But when it used to be an office, we have, we sometimes do a circle where everyone got to share or I like this about you, and you know, or I didn't like that about you or whatever, but to get it off their chest, so the person can leave cleanly, and there's no residual trauma that's looking around. You know, we often have when someone joins the company, or projects started, you know, we often we sort of celebrate right in our company, you know, we welcome into the office, whatever, when someone leaves, they often slink out the back door, and why not make it a more spiritual leaving process? You know? And
Natalie Thompson 21:51
that's like, the systemic constellation stuff, isn't it? Hmm. Which is
Michaela Light 21:56
energetically? Yeah. Well, you do energetic shifting? Yeah, you can do that.
Natalie Thompson 21:59
It's to do with, like, you know, when you when you leave, when you leave a company, if it's under a cloud, or there's not, there's not a closure, you don't have closure, you do carry that through energetic, yeah. You know, and that's
Michaela Light 22:12
good. Just to be selfish for the entrepreneurs listening, okay. You might say, Well, why the fuck do I care about the person who quit? Right? Well, first of all, it will be good as another human being that you do care. But even if you don't, for your own company's energetic integrity, and all the employees are left, it's better than they, they get closure. And that the energy wound because when someone leaves that potentially could be an energy wound in the aura of the company. And I'll delve into that in a moment. But it's helpful to have some ceremonies enclosure around people leaving and try and leave on the best terms, you can don't burn bridges, even if they're a Democrat. That's a technical term.
Natalie Thompson 22:52
To use it, I think, as well, when there is like, when there's been a problem roll as well. And this is this happened with a roll that I worked on in the US. And there was a there was a role where somebody had been a bit of a problem in that role. And correct, I think is the right route. Okay, so suddenly, the plants, and the role was problematic, and it was causing a big for everyone to get rid of this person and say, Get Rid whatever. And this person moved on. And then the next person that came in, was instantly feeling a lot of pressure. Because actually, a lot of the issue was a was with the team. Right? She was with was with the team and not being not having the full support. So this new person comes in and goes, Oh, my God, what have I just What have I walked into? Like, everyone's so disillusioned, everyone's motivated, and I suppose to come in now and fix all this. And, and again, it's that kind of it's, it's, there's that there's an issue with the system.
Michaela Light 23:53
Right? What is it you know, let me give you an analogy to the audience knew, which is if you were renting rooms in your house to tenants, and maybe the room had noises in it or ghosts or bad smell and so the tenant left or maybe the tenant was a dickwad or a prat. And they left wouldn't you want to clean the room with and sage it and like you know really clean up the space and make it beautiful for the next tenant and then do law of attraction to attract in your ideal tenant and maybe do a little introspection on how did I allow this dickwad into the room in the first place? Or how did I tried to automate what in myself is a bit Dick Woody? Kind of, you know, because I field in order for me to attract an idiot or a dick ward or Pratt into my business or my life, there has to be an energy hole in my auric field. There has to be some place in my trauma. You know, going back to the traumas, I have some micro trauma or scar that let that kind of person come in. Because if I was hold on filled with love and light, I kind of I might bump across this person be like Oh, it's another one of those Day Quotes don't need to work with them.
Natalie Thompson 25:04
It's unfinished business, isn't it? The Unfinished business keeps these people coming in.
Michaela Light 25:09
It's a blind spot, right? And if I do the inner work, and I think entrepreneurship is all around, if you want to be a successful entrepreneur, you've got to do the inner work and heal yourself. And then the outer world of your company will grow and blossom. You can't just push through it and work and struggle and hustle like the divine masculine, not divine masculine, but like the
Natalie Thompson 25:30
masculine. What? Masculine, wounded,
Michaela Light 25:33
the wounded, I love that the wounded masculine. Yes. No, there's that there's that whatever, in entrepreneurship in the United States, I don't know if it is in England too. But you, you're supposed to work hard and hustle and just suck it up. Yeah, and there's a bunch of bullshit. Maybe it worked in the 90s, or the 80s, or whatever, but it don't work in the 2020s.
Natalie Thompson 25:57
No, you have to create space to allow stuff to come in. And I think that this, this pushing this is what's out of balance, this kind of masculine feminine energy. And when I say that, you know, we've all got masculine, I've got masculine and feminine energy. And for quite a long time, I was very much in my masculine. But what's happening now, with this kind of, you know, global awakening that's happening is that people are stepping more into their feminine because they have to, because the imbalance created a lot of the problems on the earth right now. So you know, the wounded masculine, there's a wounded feminine as wounded masculine, but the feminine is coming up the divine feminine is coming up to really kind of breaks some of these systems as well. And one of the things that I discovered is, like, if I take breaks, you know, I have an app, I have an app in the day, if I want a nap, I'll go and have a nap, you know, are, yes. And, you know, and some days, if I'm really not feeling it, if I'm not in a flow, I'll just say, You know what, I'm gonna go to the gym, and I probably, I might do something later, I might have a day off, like, I allow myself to go with the flow. Whereas before, I'd have pushed through and then just begin fixing a brick wall, because I'm not in flow. Whereas sometimes coming away, and allowing yourself a little bit of freedom, a little bit of time. And then when you go back to it. That's my view.
Michaela Light 27:22
Yeah. All right. 100% agree with that I will take I don't, I mean, sometimes I'll take a longer nap. But if not just lie down in the bed and Twitch and shake and let the energy moves through. And now I'm refreshed. I often think I'm getting spiritual downloads at that time, you know, it's like, I'm doing the masculine doo doo doo thing. And then I just lie down and let it flow through me. And then I feel much more centered. And the other thing related to this, there's a thing I learned this year about smiling, was initially it was smiling at body parts and organs, you know, kind of that contented Buddha like smile, Oh, I'm glad you're here, stomach, thank you for digesting all the things I put in you, and so on and go through all the organs. But when I realized you can use this for tasks, and projects, and all kinds of things, so if I smile at the project, just see it going easily and flowing. It often does just, you know, come easy.
Natalie Thompson 28:18
It's like embodiment, isn't it, it's that it's that idea of embodying embodying the feeling of it already been done and already been gone.
Michaela Light 28:26
And it's setting intentions. You know, it's all about vision board stuff. I used to do a vision board every year, but I was talking to a friend of mine who does, she does many things, but one of the things she does is she helps people do their vision boards. And she and I realized, well, we don't have to do this once a year, we can do it every day, or you know, just draw a little, little vision, a vision board for this project, or, you know, I'm gonna hire someone, what's the vision for how that process goes? And it's all whatever it is for you, you know, and what's my ideal personnel or the company or whichever way around? It is? So I think, you know, we are I don't have this book in front of me, but there's a famous book called Think and Grow Rich by spacing on a guy's name, it'll cut I'll put it in the notes. It this was written 100 years ago. Yeah. And the point I want to make is what we think is what we manifest and if we have positive thoughts, and we clean up our trauma, we're going to create a wonderful business and if we don't we're going to have a doctor up stressful loss making business that causes health problems eventually in for our staff and us
Natalie Thompson 29:37
well the way I see it is and this is something that I've only realized in the last probably couple years doing the breath work and clearing so much out is that you know we are channels you know, we're we're channels and for me like it's a bit like if you're blocked How can anything God How can anything creative or anything good come in when your mind is full of stuff that isn't serving you but you can't Get rid of it, because it's just like sludge so hard, it's really hard. And then and then you've got new stuff that you're trying to deal with, with all this sludge still in. So, you know, by releasing that, you know, through the breathwork, in particular, you know, on a weekly basis, even, you know, you literally are making waves so that you can take more of the good stuff and let more light in like more manifest or better and feel lighter. You know, there's plenty times I'll go down and I'll, I'll go into a breathwork even if I think nothing really on my mind, I'm fine. Completely convulsed, and I've cried for like 20 minutes. Pure release, not. I'm not thinking oh, no, there was this time when this happened. It's just, it's just a release. And it's, I feel
Michaela Light 30:48
the understanding or the thoughts are secondary. You know, it's the releasing the energy, that's the most important. And if you get an insight that oh, yeah, I was I didn't get the sweeties. When I went to the shop with my mommy, when I was three years old, you know, well, okay, that's great. But it probably doesn't really matter in the course of things. But it releases that energy of lack that you felt then that is now affecting you when you're coming to do your sales calls or do your hiring. That is important.
Natalie Thompson 31:16
I like that. Because that's thing people get attached to a story and quite often their triggers in the moment, and nothing about what happened. And it's the reminder of the feeling of what happens in that that's unresolved from the past. So yeah, just nailed that.
Michaela Light 31:32
Yeah. And we can feel into that. And we can do breath work or or plant medicine or whatever modality yoga, laughter therapies and other good one if you've ever done that's very, what's the word cathartic is the word I'm looking for. I mean, great. Orgasms work good, too. You know, when you were talking about your breath, work experience, it really sound like you're having a really amazing sex without having to deal with other people involved. You know?
Natalie Thompson 31:58
breathwork orgasms actually. Well, yeah. So anyway, moving on.
Michaela Light 32:05
Yeah, but Well, there's nothing wrong with we won't go down the sex robots. Nothing wrong with with sexual I mean, humans are set sensual and sexual people. And, you know, we're not just robots with a mental thing, right? We bring our whole selves to work. I'm not suggesting you should go off and have sex with someone in the office because that will be inappropriate, but it's okay to use these different tools in a in a safe space to absolutely, yes, release stuff, whether it's shaking or to raise another one. If you've come across that.
Natalie Thompson 32:37
Yes. Trauma release with the legs.
Michaela Light 32:40
Yeah, the abdomen, the legs. That's some Australian dude who came up with that trauma release exercise
Natalie Thompson 32:47
kits in tartlet. Getting told stuff who does the buyer doubt biodynamic breathwork and trauma release, I think he uses that a lot. So you can actually go and lie down and put your legs together. And just without doing any breath work,
Michaela Light 33:01
right, you just get into a mild stress position that makes the muscles vibrate. And then the trauma that you'd stuck into your hips or into your app into your core muscles in your abdomen, wherever the body places comes out. And, and to be honest, this is why dancing or exercising, you know, they release stuff because you get to move bits that help us stuck. And, and just look at most offices, people are in chairs in cubicles, you know, they're kind of stuck in the same position, they're probably not breathing deeply. And, you know, it's not socially acceptable to shake and Twitch while you're working right, shame.
Natalie Thompson 33:39
Well, I am I've been going to ecstatic dance. Last week, I've not been for a while because my breathwork classes that I do locally, have on a Thursday and I had been doing some ecstatic dance. It's like two three hours on a Thursday in Manchester. And it's basically just total freedom of expression. The amount of people that have said what you mean you go and you go and dance and you don't have any alcohol and it's like this is honestly once you discover this you will know it's so freeing it's the most amazing experience because same boat everybody we have a cacao first and Oh, but I went on Thursday after not been for a while. What's cacao
Michaela Light 34:23
for people who don't know because you sound like you snorted some cocaine but really cacao is what anymore.
Natalie Thompson 34:30
So yeah, so ceremonial cacao is is the is the purest form of chocolate, but it's a plant medicine. And it's basically a natural antidepressant. So it boosts your serotonin, it boosts your dopamine. It's got something in it called theobromine and it's got the bliss molecule. So it's basically gives you feelings of contentment, compassion, and it's a heart opener. So it is is very good for the for the heart. It's very good for the cardiovascular system, it's full of magnesium. But what it really does is it connects you to your heart center, which is why it's good for ecstatic dance because it just enables you to express and open. It's not psychedelic, you're not tripping or anything like that. But it's just, I have it every morning instead of a coffee. And it's it's changed my life. Because it makes me feel very connected to myself. It's very good for creative insights as well. But just coming back to the ecstatic dance, you know, I walked in there last Thursday, I'd been in my head all week, I was really annoyed with myself, I was like, why am I in my head so much, which makes it worse exacerbates the problem, you probably had your head up your ass or something, it was a bit on my ass, I'm not gonna lie. So, you know, and then the more the more I was getting frustrated with myself, the more in my head I was getting. So I was like, I'm gonna go to ecstatic dance and they went in there. And immediately I got a bit triggered because there's a few people whooping as like, oh, I don't this is just annoying me. But I realized that was because of the that was because of the space I was in in that moment. And what I did was, I just thought, no, do you know what I'm going to relinquish control, and I'm just going to shut my eyes. And I went on a journey. And honestly, I cried at the end of that, and cried at the end of that dance, because it had just completely taken me out of my head into my heart. And I was completely free of everything that I'd been feeling that week. And it was like magic. It is magic. It really was. And I'm honestly I'm not the kind of person to you know, make anything up that isn't
Michaela Light 36:41
at all I want to say to people listening, you probably if you're in any size, this you're going to find ecstatic dance or five rhythms or whatever they call it. Yeah, but the point is, it's, it's usually music that doesn't have too many words, they don't have too many instructions. And you know, you're not, although you can make whoopee noises you're not you're encouraged not to talk, so you get out of your head. Some ecstatic dances I've been to people are blindfolded, and you kind of dance on a yoga mat, so you don't hit other people. And often the music goes through those five rhythm stages of remember what stages are the five waves,
Natalie Thompson 37:19
it kind of builds up if you'd like staccato, and then ecstatic. And then yes, it's kind of builds up, we teach on a journey, that's the vibe.
Michaela Light 37:28
Right, and a lot of static dance will go through, let's start off with something more gentle, and it will get more frenetic and rhythmic, and then there'll be a feminine flowy bit and then there'll be a kind of chill down bit at the end. And it does take people often through a journey. And I when I mean I've led a static dance myself, and yeah, and I encourage people to set an intention for their dance if they want to. So what you know, is something you want to create in your business or something you want to release or, or whatever. So same for yoga, I teach yoga to I usually do that for yoga classes, I invite students, you know, what's the intention, you have something you want to create in your life or let go. And then often while they're doing the poses, they get insights because they're like moving their body and breathing. And it's hard to get insights just in your head, you know?
Natalie Thompson 38:23
Well, that's it. Once you come into the heart, that's when you get the true insights because you're not your own. You
Michaela Light 38:28
know, you know, you know how in America and probably United Kingdom, when people say point to yourself, people point to their head, that's where they experience themselves. But in Japan, when you ask someone to point to themselves, they point to their heart. Because in that society, that's where people think that that's the embodiment of the person. Not saying Japan is a perfect society has its own little issues. But it's interesting that not every society thinks that human beings are centered in their head. This is
Natalie Thompson 38:57
It's like we're very much driven by the mind and the ego. And actually, you know where you are, and where you're, you know, where you're gonna find your joy is in your heart, it's never gonna come from you, from your thinking mind, you know,
Michaela Light 39:10
I can't think your way into joy typically think your way into being fucking depressed. That's
Natalie Thompson 39:17
a really good one for that. Yeah, the mind is brilliant at that. And, you know, I think for me, like, what I've realized is, you know, we're all natural dancers, and some people, they get this idea of, oh, I can't dance and I could never I could never do that.
Michaela Light 39:32
When you say they get that idea, let's just dig into that. Where did that idea come from?
Natalie Thompson 39:37
I think like, so it's like as children stuff happens to someone says something in the moment. And you know what, in that moment, for some reason, it stinks. It stinks. It sticks and it's an imprint.
Michaela Light 39:50
Maybe a parent says that maybe the parent feels lack of confidence about their own body.
Natalie Thompson 39:56
Wow. Often it's a projection or you know, a look by for example, dance sitting around and his dad might say, or, or his mom or his grandma. Oh, don't be silly, what you doing that feel silly doing that. So then then what happens is the little boy then says, Oh, well, I will exile that part of myself because that is not allowed here. It's not it's not encouraged and therefore it's unlovable. So I will also deny it in myself. So that aspect becomes denied, then what happens is they decide that well, they're not a dancer, and they probably don't like people who do dance. Right? You know, because because that's the projection then of I don't like dancing and I don't like you because you dance your dance, and I don't like that. And it's, it's about that that's something called internal family systems where you do the work. All these aspects of yourself that you kind of, you know, you put in place to, to keep yourself safe. And your protectors, and then the parts that you've actually completely denied. And the internal family systems stuff is all about bringing those aspects back to wholeness.
Michaela Light 40:58
Now people listening may think, Well, I don't really need to dance for my business, no matter how happy you do. You do every morning playing devil's advocate there, you
Natalie Thompson 41:11
know, I know but you do. I'm sorry. I won't hear anything about it apart from you do need to dance in the morning. Now. I never thought I'd do this. I was a seven times a snooze hitter in the morning, right? Oh, like, what's the latest? I can get up and get away with it. hit the snooze, hit the snooze, hit the snooze. Do you know now what I do I get up at like, half, six, quarter to seven. I go and have a cow and I dance for an hour and a half. Fucking now. I'm not you know, I mean, I'm just me like eyes closed and just totally in a kind of inner flow. I just allow the movements come through me. And it's non negotiable. That
Michaela Light 41:47
is a difference. Do you notice in your work day when you do that, versus you don't
Natalie Thompson 41:51
just it's almost like it's just become such a part of my routine. It's it makes me happy. It makes me happy. It makes me more able to deal with all the crap that comes in the other parts of your life. You know, when and it brings joy. It's not. It's not like, Oh God, I better go and dance in the morning. It's like, oh, God, I'll get up. I look forward to it. I'm not saying everybody needs to go and do that. But for me, it's just become something that's evolved over time. And I just, I love it, I get so much from it.
Michaela Light 42:24
I think it's important we do things we enjoy both outside of work and inside work. You know, I, we in businesses, we so often look at the profit and loss and the money. And I have a dream that one day as well as looking at the money, we look at the joy that's flowing in our business, how happy are the staff how happy the clients happy, am I as the owner of the business. Because that's important too.
Natalie Thompson 42:52
Well, the thing is jobs where your job typically where your joy is, is where the good stuff happens. If you're following Joy, I think that's where the good stuff happens or, or if you are experiencing joy outside of work, you will bring it into work. But if you're just trying to get an end goal of you know, getting deals in where you've got no time family, or you've got no time to do anything that you like, then that's kind of defeating the object as far as I'm concerned. It's like yeah, and
Michaela Light 43:21
that's where people get burned out. You know, that's where people get sick, they have a health crisis to get cancer, they have a heart attack at 50 or whatever age or they get divorced, you know, and they don't see their kids anymore. And it's like, they have a midlife crisis, because they didn't have that holistic approach. They were just focused on the work or the money or fame or success, whatever it is. It's not sustainable. You know, you can focus on money for a little bit, right. But if then it helps to switch to focus on other things, too. And ideally, you do do work that you enjoy doing. I'm sure you see this with candidates, you want the candidate to enjoy the skill, they have to be want to learn it more and contribute to the company and they enjoy the position. Right? Not just doing it because they're going to make Megabox not that it's anything wrong. Box.
Natalie Thompson 44:16
No, I mean, we all like to make make a box as well. But you know, I think I think what I've seen it over the last six months or so maybe a bit longer is, you know, this candidate lead market now people are literally refusing to even look at jobs unless they meet a certain criteria. And that is, you know, I'm not going into the office. Like, I don't care what you're paying me. I'm not going to the office or I'm not going to the office. Unless it's just like once or twice a week or you know, I want to be able to work from Spain, six months of the year like, that's how demanding we got. But yeah, exactly. Why not? I mean, one thing that you know the pandemic showed is that people can be trusted you No people can be trusted to not be micromanaged and to work from home, and you know, to get on with it, they don't need to be in an office where, you know, you can
Michaela Light 45:09
say, Well, I would take to that slightly with, you know, then needs to be clear what results they need to. Yeah, because clearly there are some people, it's not that they can't be trusted. It's just they don't necessarily get the results done. If they're not, if their boss isn't clear, this is what you have to produce each week. They don't necessarily produce it, you know, because they're not used
Natalie Thompson 45:30
to. Absolutely, but what I'm saying is, you know, it's, you can very easily prove if someone's doing the job or not sure. If the results are there, you know, are you hitting your target? Yes, if you're hitting the target?
Michaela Light 45:45
Does it matter? What, as you work unless you have to be talking to someone in a meeting? Or does it matter? You know, what clothing you wear? Or where you do it? Or what I mean? Does it matter what gender you are, what age you are, what race you are? or religion or any of those things? No, it's just what do you fit the culture of the company? Do you have the the attitude that fits the company? Do you have the skills? And do you want to do you know, get you're going to enjoy doing this? Whatever the job is, and bond with the team? You know, that, to me is what's important, not all the other little things?
Natalie Thompson 46:23
Totally agree, totally agree.
Michaela Light 46:26
I mean, I understand some jobs are more hands on, you know, if you're, if you're a nurse in a hospital, you probably need to actually touch the beds and the patients and stuff. Not not so good. Or many of the other important jobs, you know, repairing the water mains, or taking out the trash or whatever, all those jobs that when we talk about this lock down period, there were a lot of people who still have to go to work, you know, what kind of two kinds of people in Britain and in the United States, you know, the ones who could work from home in their pajamas and what have you, and the ones who, unfortunately, or fortunately, you know, couldn't because the role wouldn't let them?
Natalie Thompson 47:06
And actually a lot of those in on either count, we're desperate to do the opposite.
Michaela Light 47:12
Oh, yes. Because you get bored at home, and you're feeling constrained? And yeah, and you may not enjoy going out if you're afraid of the whole situation. So anyway, hopefully, we that we've caught we got some benefit.
Natalie Thompson 47:28
For now, yes, we've moved
Michaela Light 47:29
on. From that particular excitement. I think it's a little whatever I, I do feel with these fear things in the news, you know, it's like a meme. There's a whole meme economy thing means a meme is a belief or an idea that gets shared around between brain brains, you know, whatever the idea is, and they get worn out, you know, if the news is pounding on 24/7, about one particular thing, or for certain, while people get bored of it, and they just move on. Yeah, and maybe that's why we've got so many of those this year, because people are getting a bit jaded and a bit you know, the trust in the news is down. And the trust in corporations is not that great either. To be honest, you know, a lot of some corporations are but a lot of them if they're not providing those extra things, you're saying, you know, where there's meaning to the work and, and then they care about their staff. People pick up on that, and they won't put up with it anymore.
Natalie Thompson 48:29
Yeah, I mean, a ping pong table or, you know, that's not going down too well anymore. You know,
Michaela Light 48:35
you might stick that ping pong table where the sun don't shine. Yes, and this also relates to that I forget what it was called. But there's a current thing called Quiet quitting, you've probably read about and then there's a great resignation was the other thing and they they're all aspects of the same thing. Right, the people won't put up with jobs that I mean, let me I'm just gonna say it bluntly, if that's okay with you, Natalie. If the job is sucking their soul, people won't put up with it anymore. And that's what a lot of corporate jobs use.
Natalie Thompson 49:10
But I think the time that two years or however long it was really gave people feed for food for thought, as far as hang on a minute, right? I do in like, what what am I here on earth to do? Does this make me happy? I've just lost two years of my life like people have. It's been amazing that people reevaluating, like, what do I want? Like what even is this? You know, I think it's been brilliant on so many levels, you know, for really, things that needed to be shaken up. I don't think it's been that it was needed. It was the weather. The weather here in the UK, was absolutely amazing when there was nothing you know, so
Michaela Light 50:00
No, I agree there was a lot of silver lining to what occurred, gave people that shift and let them they they did see some truth. And the problem with the rat race, you know, as modern corporate life tends to be as you're kept so busy at work, and then you're busy off, you know, entertaining yourself or getting drunk or water sniffing white powder substances, or whatever it is, you don't have any time. Whereas in that period, people had time and they could see oh, this I like that I don't like. Yeah. And I think that's a good lesson to draw for that is take time in your life in your business. Don't be old. Go go go. And I do want to get this Frank Sinatra song in that's very illuminating on this, which you may have heard occasionally, and the song goes dooby dooby doo. Oh, and not so sure about that one. Oh, well, I'll I'll find the song. He's, he's he's 1950s.
Natalie Thompson 50:55
I know him, I noticed I wasn't sure that.
Michaela Light 50:59
Well, he has a song where he's singing that he's seeing those words. And the point I want to make is, it's good to do things in business. But it's also good just to be and be still dance or be in your heart or your body takes some cocao do some breath work. So that you have the perspective, you know, this this, you've probably come across Stephen Covey Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, whether you've read it or not. And I always remember one that he had a chapter on goal setting, and, you know, managing and what have you. And he made the point that like, you can have the best fucking managers in the world, you know, maybe your goal is to build a road through the jungle, right? And you've, the managers are there like measuring how sharp the knives are, and how effective the workers are on the frontline cutting through those jungle vines. And then finally, someone takes a little break, and they climb up one of these tall trees and have a look around say, Oh, wrong jungle. And it's so easy in business to be so busy, that you forget, okay, is this something I enjoy doing? Is this bringing meaning into the world? Is this helping us grow our business? You know, we're even following the goals we set at the beginning of the year. Right? And some of those? No, I don't, I'm a fan of traction by Gina Whitman. And if you come across that entrepreneur book, but he has a whole Entrepreneurial Operating system, where you set goals, and you kind of have regular meetings to see how you're doing on the goals. And it's all it's just one mental way to keep track of things. But my point is, if we don't look at the big picture, occasionally, it's easy to go in the wrong direction. And these practices you bring to the corporate world I feel helped people reset the, you know, their corporate, whatever. And they can see, do we are we working good together? Are we going in the direction we want to go? Yeah, and it's as important as doing the work. Because otherwise the work can become meaningless, and it can become work that isn't effective, or isn't going in the right direction. And the direction can fucking change to, particularly these chaotic days, you sometimes you have to pivot a company. And if you're not paying attention, you don't notice that until it's too late.
Natalie Thompson 53:11
Well, it's not, it's very much about staying clear on who you are, and what you want. And, you know, keeping that connection to yourself. And, you know, again, it's about being embodied, it's about coming into the body, you know, and leaving the thought behind for a little while so that you can get clarity. And you can,
Michaela Light 53:30
I'm going to add another with the S word in here, which is sleep. I know that's a little naughty to say to people in the entrepreneurial life. Yeah, me too. And it helps me refresh and I'll get clearer insights. When I'm well rested, I do my highest value work. You know, that's when I get creative ideas. That's when I have the best interviews with candidates. If I'm tired and dragging, I'm not going to do good work, you know, and the same for my staff. So you know, all of these things come together to help us do great things. Um, there is one other thing I want to get in here. I'll go ahead. You're the guest. So it's just
Natalie Thompson 54:13
going to talk about the sufferer survival mode. So the survival energy, this survival energy that a lot of CEOs, I mean, you know, there's I've got quite a few CEOs who openly like now talk to me about, you know, the breath work and about one of the things and literally, they're up at the crack of dawn because they're constantly in this survival mode. And the thing about survival mode, and I don't know, if you've ever looked at stuff about, you know, the mother wound and things like that. It's like anybody who's in survival mode is not really able to be nurturing at all, they're just functioning to to survive, and therefore, you're not actually in no in a place where you can thrive I guess. If you're just surviving, you're not, you're not usually thriving. And that's why it is important to, you know, to rebalance. And to come into these practices which enable you to come out of that, that that nucleus survival energy, right, which is amazing for getting you out of trouble. But it's not so good. If you're just shopping at Aldi, and it kicks off. Do you know what I mean? So this is why it's important, especially for the senior leaders who are in this mode to release that energy. Yeah, they get, that's how they get into trouble. That's how people either get rendus and anxiety and panic, or they get depressed, because they get to that part where they just
Michaela Light 55:45
write, well, and as a leader, whatever energy I have, as a leader, it gets transmitted to my staff and to my clients. If I come across in survival mode and afraid or anxious or scarcity mentality, it just rubs off on everything. And it kind of reflects back to me, I mean, they say relationship when you're married to someone or dating, it's like a mirror. But I think in business, all the people I work with, whether they're clients or staff or vendors, they're all mirrors. Me. And if I'm shining out survival modes, scarcity of fear, anger, energy, it comes back and may come back a bit twisted and distorted, but it will come back. And so do I really want that energy coming back to me as a leader? Probably not.
Natalie Thompson 56:36
The Short Fuse as well, you know, not not being able to, you know, things not going well and then reacting to things quicker and probably this way, and how many
Michaela Light 56:46
things in business? Do we have to react in half a second to, it's not like you're on a battlefield, we have to duck because someone's about to shoot you, right? Usually, you've got at least a few hours or a day before you have to respond, if not weeks, very few things in business are like has to be responded. I mean, I know we make it like that with text messages and emails, we pretend that it has to be immediate, but truth is, it doesn't.
Natalie Thompson 57:09
I do think that that we are very much ag sometimes feel that like, like stuff has got to be dealt with immediately, especially if you've got a lot on in your inbox is just, you know, moving up and up and up and up and up. But you have to you have to train yourself, it is like a mind training thing to not try and deal with things straightaway. That's something that I'm trying to do at the minute is not react to things as and when they grip and percolate
Michaela Light 57:33
a bit, you know, and I'm one to one that several tricks there I find I mean, does help to get things out of the inbox, move them somewhere else, whether it's, you know, save this email for in case I need it later, because it might be important or I actually do need to act on it. So I'm gonna move into a to do folder or whatever. Or maybe it's something I never need to do anything with, like, just get, you know, get rid of it. Well, maybe I can delegate it to someone else, you know,
Natalie Thompson 57:57
I forward them to myself, I fall with Boomerang myself. Yes, I don't open it. But I've already
Michaela Light 58:08
there's some software called I think it's called Boomerang. I think I looked at some things and you can like, it's a little add on to your email. I know it works with Gmail. I don't know why other ones it works with. But yeah, you can say, look, bring this back to my inbox in a day or two days or whatever. So you don't forget it. But you know, it's not. Yeah, so there are many ways or, you know, I'm a fan of getting things done by Dave Allen, you know, he wrote a book called that and, you know, it doesn't really matter. You just need some systems so you don't get overwhelmed. And I was gonna say something else, but totally spaced out what it was.
Natalie Thompson 58:44
That was me, I interrupted, you
Michaela Light 58:46
know, it's okay. i Oh, I was gonna say, you know, I respect that some people listening love slack, and they like using it, I absolutely hate it. Because it's always trying to interrupt me. And unless you reconfigure it, stop it. It's always beeping at you. That was yet another thing. And the truth is, most of them are like, they're not that important. And if they were important, that could be a P H, O n e, you know, a phone call, you know, you could, if it's really important, why not pick up the phone and talk to someone so you've got the emotional connection or do a zoom call or whatever. So I like to run my business through I use a thing called Basecamp. And it's all a synchronous, and you know, nothing's an emergency. And if there is anything that is urgent, then we'll have a call. Because there's probably more that needs to be discussed. And I think it's important you set up what I'm trying to get to the basic point is here, you've got to decide what kind of business do I want to have? And what are the systems and structures that support that kind of business and if the business is one where you're proactive and your abundance mindset and what did you say scares the most you're thriving mode instead of survival mode. What for systems and structures do you need in place to achieve that? Maybe you need Natalie to help you.
Natalie Thompson 1:00:08
If you want, I couldn't forward your emails for you know, just joking. But, ya know, I mean, the breath work honestly, that's why I'm so passionate about it, because it just it's, it's massively massively shifted. A lot of adults think people think they just think you're gonna go do a bit of bit of meditation. It's so steep is so profound. Yeah, some very profound experiences.
Michaela Light 1:00:34
Yeah. I don't quite know what metaphor to put on it. But it's sort of like, imagine your office building has a lot of cracks in it, and it's a bit wobbly. And one approach would be to slap a few coats of paint on the walls and cover up the cracks. And the other approach is to actually restructure the foundations and the breath work is restructuring the foundations. It's not just drinking a few martinis to cover it up. So yeah, it's very, I mean, I've experienced, you know, I think it was called Holotropic, Tropic breathwork. When I did. Yeah, and a lot of yoga had involves breathwork was a kind of yoga where you do a lot of breathing, I'm forgetting what they call it pranayama. That's where you, you breathe through one nostril out to the other, or you breathe in cycles, or that's another way. Another technique, it's not not the same. I do want to get in to this conversation, we talked about how we can have the candidates happy, the employers happy will staff, the customers, and healthy. I also think the business itself has a soul and a spirit. And when the staff inside the business are like reactive and survival mode, it makes the business not feel so good. I mean, I think it's analogous, you know, how human bodies have all these trillions of cells in them. And I think business is saying, we've got all the staff in our businesses, and we've got all these departments and they all have energy. And if we don't clean up the energy, the business itself can get a bit kind of grungy energy wise and isn't as I mean, I just experienced this some businesses just seem to have a sparkling loving energy and full of abundance and other businesses. It's like, oh, you know, if you ever got I don't forget what the call is the driver's license bureau or what do you get your driver's license, DVLA DVLA, the DMV, but right, because the people don't enjoy their jobs, typically. Or if they do enjoy it, it's through a negative control, you know, make people suffer kind of energy. But the whole organization has a heavy energy is what I'm saying. And if we were going to totally remodel Great Britain or the United States, one of the things is that all the companies and all the organizations, all the hospitals, all the, you know, universities, all the military, they all need an energetic cleanup. I mean, what if we had a breath work day where the whole of the country just spent the whole day breathing out all the crap. And we just visualized all our organizations being having a clear mission and wonderful values and actually embodied that
Natalie Thompson 1:03:20
you will you're literally sought out so much stuff. I mean, a lot of these, you know, a lot of these organizations are institutions, like my, my sister's partner was that worked for the prison service. And she was amazing. She was an amazing prisoner. And she actually ended up fighting the Commonwealth Games, but she was actually bullied within the, within the prison. And, and what they the way that she was treated, because she wants to go into the Commonwealth Games, she asked for some specific shifts, you know, so she could train but she was good. She was fighting for a country first first female boxer ever, wow. way, the way that in that institutions like the way it was run, and toxicity of that culture was really, really bad and shared intergender having to leave and compete in the Commonwealth, you know, but there's a lot of that there's a lot of this kind of ingrained bullying or, you know, if it's if it's there from the beginning, or it's coming over time, if you come into that, unfortunately, like, a lot of the time, I just I just have to leave sometimes due to a fear on mental health
Michaela Light 1:04:32
after the individual. Yes, it can be good to leave and reincarnate in another job somewhere else. And it's almost like reincarnating when you quit a job and go somewhere else because you're reinventing yourself. But I just want to be think of it a bit more positively. I don't think even you know, the, if you think of the most toxic businesses, whether they're corporate or public or whatever. I don't think any of them really started. They all started out with good intentions at heart 100 years ago or 200 years ago when I started. But the problem is when you don't clean up this trauma and the individuals and you don't clean up the trauma and the energy of the organization, they can get heavy. And you know, even a prison, you know, we don't typically, I mean, you've got a sister in law who was in the prison system, so you probably have a bit more compassion for the prison system. But a lot of people don't think of prisons particularly lovingly. But even prisons have good, you know, goals in mind to either removed from society, those that might kill or hurt, or rape other people, or to help reform the people who can be reformed and heal them. Ideally, I'm talking about the ideal here and all what happens in practice. And to entertain them in new skills, right, that often happens in prisons, they, you know, the good, the prisoners who want to grow will spend time learning something new, or reading or exercising, or whatever the thing is. So I'm saying even in the organization, that's the most jaded, the most toxic, they're in, there's a kernel of life in there. And it's just like with human beings, even with the flabby couch potato, human who, who isn't healthy, there's a spark of life in there that they were, there was a little girl or a little boy who wants to dance, wanted to laugh, wanted to, you know, do all the great things, and it's almost extinguished. But it could come back.
Natalie Thompson 1:06:31
If they want it, as well, there's got to be an element of wanting that as well, or seeing that is possible,
Michaela Light 1:06:38
or a life crisis, right? In human beings, often they have a heart attack or cancer. And there's two ways to go with a health challenge, right. And I've seen this in friends, some of them just roll over and die after a few months, right. Others are like shit, I don't want to die. Now I've got other things I want to do. And they totally change their diet and their exercise. And they get rid of toxic friends and their cancer, just what they they call it spontaneous remission. That what that means is, and it happens in 30 40% of cancers, right? And what spontaneous remission means the doctors have no effing clue why they got better. Yeah, it was a spiritual miracle.
Natalie Thompson 1:07:15
They decided in that moment, they decided,
Michaela Light 1:07:20
yeah, they shifted their reality, they cleaned up their toxic stuff, because I do believe that health challenges come initially, we have a spiritual illness, you know, we're depressed or burned out or whatever. And then we don't eat so good, or take drugs or whatever we don't work out, or we put up with a boss, Susan dickwad. Sorry to bring that word back. And after, after five or 10 years, it can exhibit him back pain, or neck pain, or cancer or whatever. And we have a choice, do we shift our light and the same thing is true for our businesses, a business starts off bright and shiny. But if you get too much bureaucracy, or too many scars and toxic things, and you don't clean them up, it can get achy, you know,
Natalie Thompson 1:08:09
it's the word isn't it, dis ease creates disease, you know, that's, that's the problem,
Michaela Light 1:08:15
right? That's what the word has in it, as you so cleverly said, it's a lack of ease. And the same thing in our, in our jobs, it can have a lack of ease and a job or a lack of ease in business. And, you know, it's possible to feel that in our businesses, or feel it in our jobs, what part of our business, you know, maybe the marketing departments really, you know, full of energy and joy and doing great things, but the accounting departments depressed and, you know, they take other people off, and they play politics with each other, you know, or vice versa. And the same thing with the job, you know, if you have a job, probably for everyone listening, there's at least one aspect of the job that you actually do, like whatever that is, you know, maybe it's a particular task you do each month, or maybe it's the coworkers or maybe you've got someone in the organization you look up to, you know, I'd hope that someone doing a job has something they like about it. Right? So what if you could just heal all those aspects and make either in that company you make the job wonderful, or you go somewhere else and have a wonderful
day? Maybe that's a clue that we've been talking for quite a long time now. We probably should. We have because we haven't a good time. Yeah, with all these podcast things, I like to feel the energy of the interview. I think the interview itself is its own entity and has, you know, a certain lifetime and it's good to sense Okay, time to wrap up. So what If we want to reach you online, what are good ways to find you online? Natalie?
Natalie Thompson 1:10:04
So the longest website address in the world ever for my recruitment, global software hiring company is Pangea, which is Pa n g AEA global associates.com. But if you're interested in breathwork, well, the breath work as well. We're doing through Pangea because we're doing corporate breathwork. We've got a six week online course. And we do in person workshops as well. And I want to do as many of them as possible because I think in person is, is really good. But the six week course is fantastic as well. And then for the cacao breathe, Pray Love cacao. So breathe, pray love.co.uk We're on Instagram and Facebook as breathe Pray Love cacao.
Michaela Light 1:10:51
Wow. Quite well. Yeah, I will say, Well, I really appreciate you coming on the podcast and sharing your wonderful energy and beliefs now.
Natalie Thompson 1:11:05
Thank you. Lovely. It's lovely to have these kinds of conversations in the business world. Because obviously, I think as we sort of said at the beginning, you kind of think all these conversations, but now Now for me, it's just like, it's, it's part of, it's part of who I am. And it's it has to be shared like you can, you
Michaela Light 1:11:26
know, I think it's best to be you know, best to be ourselves. Absolutely. Because if we there's no one else, no one is going to be you or me.
Natalie Thompson 1:11:37
There's only one and everyone else is taken as Is that what's
Michaela Light 1:11:42
something like that. So I invite everyone listening, you know, do it just a little bit. Maybe it's a bit frightening to be a fully full on yourself. Right? Today, but you could be a little bit more yourself somewhere, I'm sure. All right. Well, I look forward to talking with you and other time. I'm going to end the show now.